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Set The Standard
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Set The Standard
Why Boss Babe Culture Is Ruining Relationships - Zoe Dane
Why Men Are Tired of ‘Boss Babe’ Culture & The Truth About Feminine Power 👀
Modern dating is broken. Women are told to be independent, chase success, and compete with men—yet deep down, many feel unfulfilled. Meanwhile, men crave feminine energy but struggle to handle it.
In this episode, we break down:
⚡ Why ‘Boss Babe’ culture is draining women & killing attraction
⚡ The hidden power of feminine energy (that men secretly crave)
⚡ How women unknowingly reject the masculine leadership they desire
⚡ Why most relationships fall into a power struggle – and how to fix it
🔥 If you’re tired of surface-level dating advice, this episode will change how you see attraction, purpose, and polarity forever.
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Black vibe. We got the black vibe.
Speaker 2:We got the black vibe. We got the memo going on. Zoe, thank you so much for coming on to the show.
Speaker 1:Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2:I'm very excited to have this conversation, and you were just mentioning beforehand something around Tantra, around entrepreneurship what was that word?
Speaker 1:you used Tantric entrepreneurship.
Speaker 2:Tantric entrepreneurship. Tell me about that.
Speaker 1:Okay. So I always say T tantra is flirting with infinity. So when you know, and then also I see entrepreneurship as a way to harmonize the masculine and feminine. So I see, uh, I see it as the masculine and feminine coming into union, and then dharma as our union with God. I'm just going to go there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, let's go there. So what do you mean by dharma as union with God? Is that sort of like a purpose?
Speaker 1:So dharma is a Sanskrit word that basically means your sacred purpose, and I see it as God encoded each one of us with this blueprint and we feel it all the time. For a lot of us, it almost haunts us, Like it's just always there, you know, and it's like, okay, I feel this and in order to step up to it, I get to become, you know, higher and higher versions of myself by going deeper and deeper into the things that are blocking me from going there. And so the way that I see Tantra with that and I know you feel that and the way I see Tantra with this is like Tantra is. It means to weave, so it's the weaving of all the elements and all the pieces that are showing up in your reality, everything that you've been through up until this point the trauma, the mess, turning it into the medicine and allowing it to be the guidepost to the Dharma, and seeing how it's all weaving for you to live your sacred purpose.
Speaker 2:That's crazy. How does that play out that you've seen for entrepreneurs?
Speaker 1:So the reason I call it tantric entrepreneurship and I'm speaking more toward people who feel this like pull and this call to serve, right From the heart, like it's heart-led, and you're weaving all of your experience into whatever this thing is that you're here to do, and the tantra of that is, you get to find pleasure in your own becoming and you get to weave these energies of the masculine and feminine within it, and it's such a delicate, delicate dance. We were just talking about how this shows up in relationship, right, but it also shows up in your relationship with your work, with your service. So it's like, yeah, remind me that.
Speaker 2:Ask that question one more time, because I feel like something's coming through okay, as it was around, like, like what does it mean for like entrepreneurs in general? Like, how do they, how does like the tantric entrepreneur use tantric to be an entrepreneur?
Speaker 1:so there are a lot of elements to this, and I typically speak to women about it, because when we tap into, okay, so a lot of the west sees tantra as purely sexual.
Speaker 2:Right, we were just talking about this, like, like previous connotation, if I didn't know like get into like the work and understand like where tantric goes, because I got some of my friends that are sexual embodiment coaches and it's like really cool to understand. But if I didn't read or learn from them I just think, oh, I'm going to go here and just get really good at sex. That's what I would think is going to happen. So okay, there's so many pieces here. That's what I would think is going to happen.
Speaker 1:So, okay, there's so many pieces here. So there's sexuality and then there's sensuality, right. And so I, the thing I teach women is to tap into and harness both in a in a way that's really sovereign and a way that's really clean, in a way that's really authentic to them, right? So when we're looking at both of these energies, we're looking at the sacral center, which is your seat, right, it's like right under your navel, and it's the seat of your creativity, of your emotionality and of your sexuality and your sensuality. All of these weave right. There's kind of the tantra piece, so they all weave to inform, like, what you're doing in the world and how you're showing up. So, with women, I teach them to harness their sexuality in a way that is fully allowing their creative life force to channel into their dharma, instead of leaking out and maybe courting men or in a way that's, you know, trying to get validation or that's manipulative. It's about pulling it all back in and operating from the wholeness of their like most, their most empowering energy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I feel like women's sensuality is, like this, one of the strongest forces that, like they have.
Speaker 1:I say, feminine radiance is an aphrodisiac.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, but for everything, for everything, yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, because it's a woman fully embodied in the physical realm while also being connected to her spirit, right? So much of the time are like our spirit, our soul, men and women, isn't actually in the body. So the difference between sensuality and sexuality is sensuality is just the attunement to the physical, and so when a woman is really here in the physical, you can feel it, you can feel her here, right? It's like John Wineland says the feminine radiance is nourishment to the masculine's nervous system, oh yeah, Because you guys don't have that same energy.
Speaker 1:I remember I was sitting in a medicine ceremony and it was really intense. It was like all men singing and playing the Icaros and like I just felt like my insides were being annihilated and I'm like whoa, is this really?
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, I feel like masculinity is more. I don't know what John's definition of it is, but I feel like it's more challenge. Like when we're hanging out with the guys it's like challenge. And then when we're around the feminine and like just the word nourishment, you know, like feminine nourishment to the man's nervous system, immediately I feel like, oh, as a guy, straight away I feel that yeah, well, in the ceremony our friend Ruby wound up singing.
Speaker 1:Ruby Chase was singing, she sang and everyone's nervous system just went like everyone just exhaled, and to me I was like, oh my gosh, this is what's happening on a collective scale. If we look at also patriarchy, there's so much masculinization of women as well, and so none of us are having that exhale of nourishment that that sound that exact sound.
Speaker 2:That's so crazy. I I went to. I can't remember I've been doing so much shit since I've been here in austin, but the last day or two I went to that was two nights ago. I went to like a.
Speaker 2:It was a woman and men's circle put together and one of the exercises they did was they did like a men's circle in the middle and the women not witnessed the men's circle and then the men went on the outside and then we witnessed the women's circle and one of the women started like break down in tears because she's like I feel like I've been sold a lie that I don't need men. I shouldn't want men. I've got three degrees and I'm out here hustling like crazy and I've got this mentality of like I want to be a boss babe. But she's like but I don't want to be a boss babe. And I was like you know, cause I know she's feeling all the emotions, I'm like we can have both Right, but at the same time I was. I felt a lot of empathy for that Cause. I was like wow, I know there's so many women in this position.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'd love to talk about that. So I mean, a lot of women have been modeled to, we've been modeled to run our energy like men, which dries this out it, you know, it robs us of our radiance, it robs us of our pleasure, it robs us of our joy. And then men are feeling that and so women and men then compete. So women are kind of modeled to compete with men, right, which is so counterproductive to polarity and actually being in union, because men and women both have very different things they bring to the table and they're not supposed to operate the same way. We're supposed to operate in a complementary way.
Speaker 1:So what happens is when women get into that boss, babe, hustle culture, right, we really lose touch with our pleasure, our radiance and we start to almost, like, compete with our men. And you know, our egos get really big and we don't want to be checked or corrected by a man offering us what is also called provision, right, supplying us with what we maybe need in a moment, right, and wanting to provide for us. And there's so many women that are like, oh, I want him to provide for me, I want him to be chivalrous, I want this and that, but they are not actually receiving it or allowing it, or in their femininity, which allows a man to actually feel his masculine when he's around a feminine woman.
Speaker 2:I feel like sometimes for me, like as a as a guy, I'm like the most masculine I ever feel is when I'm around, like like my partner, when I have a partner. And it's crazy she said that because, like with some of my exes, I was like, oh yeah, we competed. There was definitely like competition going on there. I was like, so how do we stop that?
Speaker 1:Well, there's the power struggle phase, and it really is an art.
Speaker 2:Relationship.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but it will constantly come up and I believe that's because it's constantly here to initiate us and to remind us to synergize, because what we're doing in our union is also like rippling out to the collective, like we're all kind of mirroring this work that we're doing right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because you can feel it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and the relationship's the foundry you know and when you can learn the art of it. Because what a lot of people do is when it gets really tough, they leave the relationship and then the same pattern happens in the next relationship, right? So if we can look at relationship as this alchemical foundry for us to become the highest versions of ourselves and if we're wanting to be in our most exalted feminine and masculine, then we had to constantly practice that in relationship Like. I'll give an example from my personal life. Lately I've been fully like in my mission right now in my membership for women, the vessel.
Speaker 2:Let's go.
Speaker 1:In the vessel. It's about being a vessel of devotion, but devotion to living the mission. So I've been so devoted to that that, like my partnership, I like I wasn't as devoted to and it kind of hurts my heart to like say that out loud, but it's, it's something that happens, and so I've been able to like really sit with it and check it, you know, and now it's like we're moving into the vessel of love and so I get to be the student of my own work and then deliver it. But for a lot of women, when we get into the business and the hustle and the mission, it does become super masculine and our inner masculine is important when it's tempered by our femininity and fed by our femininity okay, so tell me a little bit more about women's masculinity, getting you know, fed by the femininity, because I think that is really important.
Speaker 2:As you said that, because there's a guy, there's a bunch of us men out here that love the boss, babe, girls going out there and hustle. They're like, yes, like a bunch of eyes, the guy is hot love the Boss Babe girls going out there and hustling. They're like, yes, like a bunch of guys, it's hot, it's hot, I think it's hot as hell.
Speaker 1:I think it's so attractive.
Speaker 2:I'm like, oh, I don't know if I could be with someone who's not Like let's go and like get after it. Well, because you're in it, yeah, and it's there. I want someone who can like be there for me and just do all this and blah, blah, blah blah. And then I feel my personal opinion is like well, with modern communication and doing the work on ourselves, like we can do both, but it's going to be more challenging.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but that's also the path that I'm sure a lot of your listeners do, that feel gravitated to you are signed up for. I'm sure a lot of your listeners, too, that feel gravitated to you are signed up for. We didn't sign up for the easy route. We signed up to do the thing.
Speaker 2:We ain't going the easy way. We're not going over it, we're not going under it, we're going through it.
Speaker 1:Let's go, we're here to be initiated by, I say, the curriculum of our life, and it's all feeding the dharma if we feel that like blueprint to serve in a big way. So relationship is absolutely a mirror for that, and so what I mean by that is for a woman it's an art right, because it's a union with self. It's the relationship with inner masculine and feminine. But I always say the feminine is love right, and the feminine is here to love, the masculine is here to serve and we both have both in us. So if the masculine inside can be in service to love and we're prioritizing love first I know that sounds fluffy, but to wake up in the morning and do the practices that help her feel her pleasure, help her feel herself, help her feel her heart, and then she can work and move from that space. That's like the ultimate goal, because then she doesn't lose touch with, like her radiance and her effervescence and it pours into her work versus her work, depleting her.
Speaker 2:How can a man support their partner to do this? Because for me, the question I go is like I'd love to have that for my next partner and I'd love to be able to help them embody that and have that happen and I want to support them on that journey. So it's like how could I do that?
Speaker 1:you know what I mean so one big piece that's coming up is take her, take her somewhere. This is another john wineland quote. I actually yeah. So he says take her. The masculine is here to take her where she can't take herself.
Speaker 2:What a banger.
Speaker 1:So if she can work and if she can take herself there, you know in her pleasure, like in all the things, where can you take her? That she can't take herself. And you know in her pleasure, like in all the things, where can you take her? That she can't take herself. And the masculine, just like you said, loves a challenge. So the invitation is the challenge of taking her somewhere she can't take herself. Can you take her on a date or on a trip where she doesn't have to plan anything or think about anything, she can turn her brain off and fully just be present in the moment right, and kind of be in awe, Like the feminine loves to be. Most, most women love to be surprised and taken out of their element right, and knowing that out of her element you've got it so she can lean on you, so she can feel you showing up in that way.
Speaker 2:It makes a lot of sense, as you're saying, that I'm like okay, so, as a like, as a guy, there's parts of yourself that are like will start thinking. Thinking like you know well, like why do I have to do that, why do I have to organize that, and and whatever it is? But it makes so much sense of like well being, like just having a feminine soul. That's like not a want, like that's a need, right, that's a need to have, so that you can, you know, give everything back, because there's always there's so much giving in that love that you're here to produce. It's like that's how you legitimately fill her cup up as a man, and it's like she has to have that or she's going to start running dry in the relationship, and that's when things are going to get tense.
Speaker 1:Yes, there's going to be no desire for intimacy, for intercourse, you know, because she's not the feminists here to ooze radiance, love and like her essence, right.
Speaker 1:But if she can't tap into that and a lot of the times she taps into it through being able to feel herself and to surrender and to let go. Because most women operate feeling so deeply unsafe all the time, like you walk out in the street and you don't feel safe unless there's a man next to you Most of the time yes, most women, you know. And so to be able to fully like, let go. The feminine is also here to multiply, so she will multiply what you give her. And if you can create a space for her to fully just let go, right. It's less about you needing to physically give her things or, you know, be like, stressed out about planning things for her, but if you can create some kind of atmosphere for her to fully just surrender and surrender into you, right, then you're going to experience a level of her femininity that is so nourishing, it's going to help multiply everything you're creating.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it makes so much sense. It's like just doing something like that which is actually simple.
Speaker 1:It's like let's organize a weekend away or a week and regularly right, so that they can have that space Like that's worshiping your partner in like the best way, and have that space like that's worshiping your partner in like the best way, and it's also creating a container for you to practice and flex your polarity, which is not always easy, because sometimes, when you take her out of her element, it's also like her exercising trust in you and in life. It's her exercising surrender. It's her like letting go of control. I'll share a story my partner, my fiance, proposed to me a year ago and I was so deep in my work I was starting my podcast, I was working on my website and my new brand and it occupied all my attention and he's like babe, we're going to go on this trip for a week. You don't have to think about anything, you don't have to plan anything, I'm paying for everything, I'm driving everywhere and our end destination was our friend's housewarming party.
Speaker 1:Like all the way across the state and surrendering my work and everything I was excited about and passionate about and just like letting it go was a challenge and every day there was a new layer to it and I got to just breathe and rest back and trust. And there was a moment on our trip where I didn't realize he was going to propose A part of me kind of knew, but I wanted to be surprised, so I like pretended I didn't.
Speaker 2:The intuition too strong.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I had a dream about it. I think I proposed to him in a hot air balloon and then he proposed to me in a hot air balloon. I'm like sometimes it's like too too, spot on. But the thing is, a lot of women can't tap into that intuitive power if they're fully in their head and in their work, you know. So it's also the gift of allowing her site and her Oracle to come online.
Speaker 2:What do you mean about that?
Speaker 1:So the oracle is she who can see beyond this realm, she who can feel the subtleties, she who can guide the relationship right. It's intuition. But women, a lot of women, are cut off from their intuition because they're operating from their mind or from their. They're not in their natural essence. So part of what a man provides when he provides that is her being able to rest back into her oracle and her intuition and guide the relationship, guide him right and and and see where he can also step into a higher version of his Dharma, and not let him falter.
Speaker 2:How can women do that in a feminine way? Because I know cause, yeah, it's a hard part, because I know it's like you know, being in like a bunch of relationships. I understand that sometimes when that happens, it's like reactivity, it's aggression, silence, poking. You know what I mean. Knowing that like she wants to help and she wants him to get better, but she'll go mm-mm, mm-mm, and then the guy's like what the fuck? Yeah, but she'll go, and then the guy's like what the fuck?
Speaker 2:Yeah, totally. And they like shut down. Or then they get shut off and they're like what's this happening? And it causes a lot of stress in relationships and like even men will say tell me exactly, like, directly like the thing and what you want and need. And then we get told it and we're like oh, I still don't like it, and told like that.
Speaker 1:No, I know, I know, I know Speaking from the heart like really feeling what it is like you want to say to him and allowing him to feel it versus just saying it. It's like let him feel you in it. It's a lot of the time when you can feel us and you can feel our heart. You will receive it in a way that still might not feel that great, because you're, you know, sometimes the ego is like fuck this, but but you know in a way that you will receive and even if you don't love it in the moment you're feeling the deeper textures to it and so there's a lot more inclination to apply it.
Speaker 2:What would you say then to the objection, like, of some women being like? Well, I can say it from a place of you know me feeling it, but I also don't want to mum him.
Speaker 1:So there's a difference between momming him and like letting him feel you. The momming would be more like the oh, you should do this. Or you know, like what about this? And there's like this subtle, this subtle like embodiment of not believing he can do it for himself.
Speaker 2:So it's just not committing to trust. Yeah, oh damn.
Speaker 1:It's not seeing the highest in him. It's feeling like you have to baby the highest of him out of him, which doesn't, does not do justice to your relationship and you're not going to get hot for him when you're doing it. Yeah, you're infantilizing him and he can feel it right, men can feel these things, so it's more resting back into. Okay, how do I feel when I because also women can see the highest version of their man, right, and you know, hold him to that right. It's like you can speak to the boy in him by momming him, or you can speak to the king in him by letting him feel your heart and letting him feel you know the highest. Like that you want what's best for him, that you want him to serve the world in the way that you know.
Speaker 2:Only he can like saying that, like as a guy, that you definitely know the feeling, because there's one where it just kind of makes you go like you put up a wall and you just go like, ah, like I know you care, but fuck off right. And then there's another part where sometimes, like your partner will say something and you just go, oh, I'm gonna go crush the living shit out whatever they just said. And it's like this internal motivation, that's like I want to impress her, I want to show her my power and I feel like that activation part is like so powerful.
Speaker 1:For you speaking into that. I'm curious what is it that makes that difference?
Speaker 2:As you said, it's the feeling part, like it's the receptiveness, right, Because you can tell if someone's coming in, timid, kind of like. You know when is, as a boy, when your mom would come in, hey, it's time to clean your room now, please, right, do the same thing. And it's like it was so funny because I've just seen, like some of my ex-relationships and my friends, where mommy would happen and then I try to not like, shut like a partner down, but then my friends would be like, oh, shut up, shut up or something To her, not like saying shut up, but like just kind of like shut down Be like Oi, what are?
Speaker 1:you doing To him? To her, okay, but about how she's talking to you?
Speaker 2:About how she's talking to them, because she'd do something that would be like kind of mumming oh to all of them. Yeah, at some point it hey, babe, there's, you're coming across a bit mumming then like, oh, really, I didn't mean to like yeah, but it was funny seeing that. But then you can see the the other side of if there is, like this, I would say, vulnerability, like emotional vulnerability, like like, um, I'm feeling, for example, like I'm feeling really sad and upset that like you haven't been doing this thing and it's like it's. It's it's making me like doubt and just feel bad about us in general, because I know you've got more in the tank as a guy. You're like, oh man, I don't want to let my partner down. I better get out here and start whatever it is that you're doing. Yeah, like just that vulnerability, yeah, which is like scary to say. I feel like for me as a guy, just awakens, even though it's hard to hear and you guys don't want to tell us the you don't know, but break our hearts.
Speaker 1:But that is like for me. I find that. So yeah, yeah, well, because men have an innate desire to protect yeah and to serve.
Speaker 1:I just got shells. So it's like, and I think a lot of women are deprogramming their idea of the masculine. A lot of women, you know, have generationally experienced a lot of pain with the masculine right. So we're learning how to trust the masculine again and we're learning how to let go of our own protective shields that callous our heart and try to protect us. Our inner masculine is trying to protect us from getting hurt. But you know, I'm seeing so many men doing so much beautiful work to be that safe space, you know, and like I can feel it. So it's like it's. It's also being patient with the, the unlearning that we're doing. That's like generational. You know, it's not just our stuff we're carrying. It's the way we saw our parents together, the way we saw, you know, maybe, if our parents divorced, the way that we saw our mother or our father with partners after right, and that was what was modeled to us.
Speaker 2:It's crazy, like when, especially when people speak in the collective, like I like putting it into just like terms, like very simple, it's like it is your parents. What's been modeled for me, for them, the news, what you consume on social media, like your friends, parents, you know, cousins, parents, like whatever it is, cousins and all those different dynamics, teachers at school, university lectures you're taking all this information in and because there's no like, oh, here's relationship course, you're like, oh, this is what it must be like bow, bow yep, yeah, totally, it's a practice of unlearning and like on, like it's a practice of unlearning and then becoming together yeah, and speaking on that one, you and your fiance had like a huge break, got back together.
Speaker 2:I want to talk about, you know, like kind of like the before, what you learned, learned the break, what you learned, and then the getting back together and what you learned and how recent that was. Because I find that so fascinating, because I've heard that story a couple of times with people and I know what it's like because I've had like a few big breakouts, like breakups, and I come out of one like recently, so I know just like the tenderness and the. You know all the things that the doubt, the unsurity, the. You know there's the love that's still there, but that you're committed to breaking and everything that's happening. It was like I need to do our own thing. Then for you guys to come back like I just think that's amazing and I feel like a lot of people would actually like to do that, to get into it.
Speaker 1:But a lot the, the fear and the trust and the vulnerability like in that time, like I just when you said that to me before, I was like respect this is something that I feel so, so passionately about speaking into, because it is something not that I don't think people talk about enough, because when we were in our break, I wanted to hear more people talking about this, and the fact that it was a possibility, without being too hung up on not being the result.
Speaker 2:The most unattached possibility with hope.
Speaker 1:Exactly, with a little bit of just knowing that it exists. But yeah, I mean, we've always had like a very like how esoteric do I get? I've always called, I've always, I've always, I always called him my twin flame, like uh, I don't want to throw around new age terms, I will only speak into things if I've had an embodied experience with it. That's so visceral. So he always felt like my other half in a way. But I needed to know my own wholeness in order to be with him. And we met when I was 22.
Speaker 1:So I was pretty young, I was still coming into my Dharma and my, my like purpose, and he's 12 years older than me. So there was, you know, the age gap as well. And, yeah, he he had, he judged a lot of me based on my femininity, thinking that he wanted a woman that was like fully established in her career, that worked out a lot, that could go hike with him, like all these, like more challenging things right, and I always say the feminine thrives in pleasure, the masculine thrives in challenge, challenge. So my thrival and my pleasure and in my embodiment felt like not what he was looking for. But he didn't realize that he was kind of masculinizing me. He wanted another version of himself, and Alison Armstrong teaches about this that men see women, whether they realize it or not, as like hairy or as like bros right, you don't realize that you're kind of expecting her to show up in that way and for Pretty men.
Speaker 1:Pretty men. And for women you know we see men as like hairy women we're expecting you to be our emotional support and to meet us in the ways that women do, so understanding that allows us to set each other up for success, right, but we didn't realize what was playing out, that it was a matter of kind of polarity and so and we also were, instead of looking out at the world, serving the world, we were looking in at each other, kind of falling into each other, into the universe of each other, and that was not productive blaming my whole last last relationship like oh my goodness it's so crazy because one part of that like simple solution that I was like, I was like, because I felt the same, I was like oh, I want to like have my best friend and be my best friend, but it's like your boys are your best friends.
Speaker 2:Go see your boys, you know what it means for women too, but it's like okay.
Speaker 1:So one element is you want to date your best friend you do, you do and you don't want to replace your, your boys, with her and for her, you don't want to replace your girls with him. Yeah, there's something you get from those two things that you cannot source in your relationship, because it feeds you and then it feeds the relationship. So, yes, prioritizing your bros, prioritizing your girls, prioritizing the things that light you up, that feel like you, prioritizing your dharma, all of these things are the foundational piece to also feed the relationship right. It's also why you're attracted to each other in the first place, because of the sovereignty and wholeness that you feel in each other, and then you attract from there.
Speaker 1:Too often in a relationship we start to lean on each other and we start to abandon ourselves and it's honestly a way that we're escaping ourselves and we blame it on the other person and we get resentful toward the other person because we feel like we miss ourselves. But really it's our responsibility to prioritize ourselves. So this is why, also in relationships, space is super underrated. But to take space to recharge in yourself like my fiance right now is at Sundance. You know he's doing his Dharma, so it's a film festival, oh sick. So his world like feature films and like changing the world through media and I get to just be in my space, in my energy, you know, taking care of our puppy and like remembering my feminine roots while I also do my mission. Yeah so, but the reason we separated was because we were doing this into each other versus side by side, arm in arm, out toward the world offering our gifts, and so the difference of that.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean To get to get to the state in the relationship where you actually both offering your gifts to the world together. Because I'm personally so curious, like how did you get to doing that? Like what's the in the in the nuances doing that? Like what's the in the in the nuances of? Like what's the difference between the communication? Like in regards to what you may talk about, or like what you're focusing on and what you're doing?
Speaker 1:there's a lot of talking about your dharma and not seeing it necessarily as work in this, like linear thing that you need to go and do and get. It's like it's an expression of who you are and like what you're the most passionate about. Right there's Pablo Picasso quote the meaning of life is to find your gift and the purpose of life is to give it away.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I love that and so, like if we're here to give our gifts and live in service to the world, our relationship gets to like fuel that right, and we get to create a safe container together to go out in the world and take big risks and do these things. But a lot of the times, if we're not in a relationship, what happens? If we know that we have this mission or this thing we're here to do, a lot of our energy gets expended by dating. So when we don't have a partner, it's like expended by dating. So this is where the discernment comes in Okay, what are my values? What am I looking for in a relationship? Right, and like kind of just being able to decipher.
Speaker 1:If, if for you, for example, something really important to you is your woman being committed to her purpose and her dharma and her service, so I would say to a man like you to not date any woman that doesn't have that foundation.
Speaker 1:Right, it's like you know and that was something that we had to discover too is like when him and I started dating, I was nannying and catering it was still a form of service, but it wasn't my full blueprint and dating him he was like OK, what is your career, what's your thing in the world? And I'm like I don't know. But I've always felt it in me. So I just asked the universe, I asked God. I said, ok, please show me where I'm supposed to go and what I'm supposed to do.
Speaker 1:And then hypnotherapy college came up like four different times, and so I just called and they're like we have orientation tomorrow. I'm like I'm there, and then I started the next week and I was in that for a year and then when lockdown started, I just got the very clear message it was time to serve from the comfort of my room and I just kept following the breadcrumbs, you know, and building on it. And then, when him and I separated, I gave myself fully to my mission and to God and I let myself go through all the waves of grief and longing and pain.
Speaker 2:What was really challenging, because that's like a year and a half is a decent time off.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, what were some of the biggest challenges during that period of time? I felt like I was dying the entire time. I felt like I was dying every month, like I was dying the entire time. I feel like I was dying every month. So I was like, okay, I just get to throw myself into the next thing that I know. I'm here to like my thing, you know, and just let God use me, because my lowercase will and my ego wants one thing. That's not, it's not aligned right now and it's not serving my heart. Um, and he had to go through and I got that message too, right it's. My intuition was like he needs to go through this initiation if he's even to step up as your husband. Yeah, yeah, totally, thank you he if he is going to step up as your husband and claim you. Right, because this is another thing with um, with some men is there's a fear of commitment.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, there's either, there's two, there's literally two men. One men are like I'm ready to commit, yeah, let's go. Yeah, like I want that and I'm actively looking for it, and then maybe come like a bit too attached, yeah. Then the other one are like hell, no, I'm not committing, I don't want this person taking away like my sacred freedom.
Speaker 1:They're like uh, what is it, We'll flow with it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we'll just go with it.
Speaker 1:Flow boys, Right, but. But women don't feel safe with the flow boy because it's like wait, where are we going? What are we doing? What are we? There's no container for it. And so, there, you know, the container of us broke and he needed to focus on his mission and, potentially, being with other women.
Speaker 1:And I had to be like, because when him and I met, he was in open relationships and I was like that's not sustainable for what I'm creating and who I am. And I was reading a book called Creating Union, which was all about the continual revelation of your essence and soul in a relationship, that there are infinite layers to go. And so I was like I'm not messing around, Like I want to go in and deep, and that he would. He wanted it, but it also terrified him, so it got to the breaking point. And so in that year and a half so it got to the breaking point. And so in that year and a half, literally the day that I said we're not talking, I need full space his mom got diagnosed with cancer October 1st and exactly a year later she died.
Speaker 2:Oh, my goodness gracious.
Speaker 1:So he was going through the initiation of our separation, of his mother dying, of losing a lot of money, like he went to the bottom, like he bottomed and the only where, like rock bottoms, are beautiful places, because the only place you can go from there is up, is up, and you, you work your way through it yeah, did you guys talk at all during that?
Speaker 1:we did, there were. It was hard for us to go more than a couple months without talking. Um, it literally felt like grieving a death and so when we would talk, it's like, oh my God, you actually exist. Okay, and we would both be so filled up by our connection anytime we talked. But it still wasn't. It wasn't there and I couldn't tell him to do the work. He had to do it for himself. Again, I couldn't mother him into the work. I could only hold him in his highest and reflect that to him and go okay, you, this is your work. Now, like I can't be a part of it. And, um, it was really hard to not fully support him when his mother was passing, because I was close with her and still there was this thing that was like you can't save him from this, and the times that I tried to it made it so much worse. It made it so much worse. So I had to fully let go and just trust that, like if we were supposed to be together, he would step up to the plate. And a year and a half later, my best friend reconnected us.
Speaker 1:But it was this wild thing where every time I was in luteal on my menstrual cycle, which is when women are so sensitive. On my menstrual cycle, which is when women are so sensitive, and then when we bleed, we're in our deepest intuition. I felt him in my womb, in my body in a crippling way, where I would lay in fetal position on my floor, crying for like a week, pretty much every month, and I would just let myself feel, Because, again, that's our superpower is to not judge or resist what's coming up, but to surrender to it and feel it and then allow that to inform us right. That keeps us in the heart. So I was in my deepest heart during that time. I was getting invited to speak on stages to hundreds of people, you know, and I was pulling from such a deep, real lived experience. Real lived experience Like there was a beauty and a poeticism in the excruciation of us being not together.
Speaker 2:That was kind of a muse in a way.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, and then, when we got back together, yeah, my best friend reconnected us. She just said, zoe, like God told me I need to connect you two. And she did. And he immediately reached out and was very like decisive and direct and like, okay, let's talk tomorrow at 12 PM. And I said, okay, we're not getting back together unless we're in a therapist's office and we have a mediator. And so he's like, okay, like just let me know when.
Speaker 1:And I scheduled it because it was my mom's old therapist. And then, yeah, and then as I'm driving to meet him, there's a giant rainbow in the sky and it felt like this, like cinematic moment, and we meet on the couch and finally we're like in person and he basically tells the therapist like he like pictures me in a wedding dress all the time and I'm the woman he wants to marry and we need to work this out. And so, yeah, we did three sessions and then just took it on our own. We did three sessions and then just took it on our own and and then we went to egypt and dubai and italy and went on this huge trip and and then moved in together and then got engaged a year ago.
Speaker 2:So this was two years ago we got back together but it was like, yeah, it was, it was the energy of full commitment and full devotion and it's like there's a lot of people that just wouldn't have the courage to go through that either, because, like, what I can see is like through that year and a half is just saying, oh yeah, you talked every couple of months or whatever, but like I get you in the terms of just like the moments of struggle that are in there.
Speaker 1:It was the most painful, excruciating experience of my life. I touched grief in ways that rocked me so to my core that I was it. It expanded my capacity for compassion and love even greater than I had had before. How'd?
Speaker 2:that help your business as well, do you find? Did you find that it helped it, or it?
Speaker 1:really did. It did, but there were some points where it was too much. It was too much and I had to go get like a real job for three months out of the. You know I've had my business for about five years now and there were three. There were a couple months where I needed to just go and activate my inner masculine and have some structure because I was too in the feelings, yeah, and it was like debilitating, but it helped in a lot of ways. It helped me really show up for myself and find wholeness within myself and that really impacted my business because, like, it allowed me to take on so much more. It made me want to just help people even more because I was in pain also. So it was an interesting catch 22.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh, that's so fascinating. And what moment of that made you go down to like teaching tantric? And then how have you used the tantric that you've learned with the tantric yoga and the tantric practices which?
Speaker 1:when.
Speaker 2:I was seen watching some of your content. I was like, man, you've got to set up some safe containers around here, like with some of the stuff. I'm like like you with your friends, you guys are like using roses, yeah. But I was like, mate, you have to set up you have to be like so solid in body safe containers for like all of that to like occur.
Speaker 1:So I want to know. Yeah, yeah, actually, the rose is, uh, one of my greatest teachers. So the rose vibrates at a frequency that is the highest of anything in the plant in mineral kingdom. So its vibration is so potent and healing. It is like the vibration of love, which is why it's so commodified with valentine's day and all these things. We look at the rose and we're like, oh yeah, that's like beauty, it's like romance, you know, and women to be able to connect with the frequency of the rose and to see themselves as these roses, right, with these thorns of discernment, with this beautiful aroma. The thorns are protecting our essence, they protect the beauty. So it's important to honor both.
Speaker 1:And at one point, when I was going through what I call a grief portal of alchemizing this energy and this pain, I had two roses and I was like just I was dancing at sunrise and I had my feet on the earth because I'm all about really plugging back into the earth and the organic grid. I had these roses and I started pulling energy with the roses out of me, so like pulling it out of my heart with the rose pulling it out of my womb, like moving with love for like an hour just dancing in pure sunlight and allowing myself to be elementally restored. And the roses were like you are here to teach the codes of the rose, like you are here to embody the rose. And so, from that point on, I started teaching women how to move energy with the rose. I bring roses to pretty much every one of my workshops and um and yeah, and even during the separation, like I got to be taken through.
Speaker 1:Okay, how do I stay in my femininity, how do I connect with the divine feminine while going through this death portal, while going through this grief, how do I ritualize and beautify this experience? How do we make it more beautiful? The ways I did that was I would wear lingerie and go through my grief, like in my lingerie, I would like, and set up my space and make it beautiful and light my candles and I'm like how can I make this essential experience while I feel like my insides are being eviscerated? You know, and I think that's part of the feminine superpower is we can beautify even the ugliest of things, and it doesn't. It's not a superficial beauty, it's like what allows you to tap into beauty.
Speaker 1:You know, and I recently did that with my grandmother passing away. I ritualized her death. I set up an altar and I set up roses and rose quartz and I wrote her letters and I, like, I made it as loving and as beautiful as I could. I loved on her with roses. She was like, literally on her last day I played her favorite music. I connected with her spirit as she was passing. It was.
Speaker 1:I had one song I would play over and over and I would cry to it and I would move to it. And then I held a women's circle for Mary Magdalene's feast day and in these circles every woman gets a chance to get in the middle and fully let her, her emotions and anything that's present for her rip through her body. And we all hold the container. So we're all holding, like the masculine container and, uh, I let myself be witnessed in the grief and I played that song. I was listening to over and over as I let the grief move through and all these women held me and witnessed me in it.
Speaker 1:And when we can do that, it doesn't live in the body right. So we're able to move through the world, we're able to like, be in our femininity, you know, and that's kind of the tantra of it. Again, it's not just the sexuality piece, although I also teach women how to harness their sexuality in a way that is purely for them, right. So, like even in a pleasure practice, a lot of women and men will outsource. They'll think of something. Men are very visual, women are very energetic. So if a woman can pull back into her energy body and move the pleasure from there and sensitize her nervous system, she becomes not only so magnetic but so intuitive, right, that she can lead her life and her man through her energy into really beautiful places.
Speaker 2:How so.
Speaker 1:Um, an example. Like, just like, so, okay. So if the women, the feminine, is the weather and the ocean, the man is the captain of the ship. She, through her emotions, through her feeling, through her sensitivity, is leading the relationship. Through her energy, she's guiding it, she's giving it some current, and then he's taking the action. And he's like she's guiding it, she's giving it some current, and then he's taking the action. And he's like executing. Right, Because he's linear. He's like okay, we need to go from here to here. Like moving to Austin.
Speaker 1:We're living in Los Angeles and I'm like I could hear the walls of our apartment whisper, screaming at me you need to get out of here. This timeline's done. Then I go babe, it's time to move. And then I just said a prayer. I said God. But this is the thing about prayer, it's a conversation with the divine, when we're really being genuine about it, when we're our whole hearts in it, right. So I just said God, where do we relocate? That's going to be conducive for our highest and greatest good, and the highest and greatest good of all, Just please show us.
Speaker 1:Next morning his sister sends us a message like I think you guys need to be in Austin. Does our astro cartography chart. She's like I think you should be in Austin. And then two more people are like I see you in Austin. And then our best friends that we were going to Burning man with go wait, we're also considering moving to Austin. We with go wait, we're also considering moving to Austin. We all get a place together the day we're leaving for Burning man. We all signed the lease. We moved in like a month and a half. It was so fast, so it was like my intuition was able to kind of pull in the pieces and then his masculine executed fully and got us here, you know. And so, yeah, just little ways like that.
Speaker 2:Because that's feminine leadership. Yeah, so, in regards to this as well, because I do want to talk about this too, everything you said was so beautiful, by the way, I was like, yes, is I do want to know? Like for both partners, because I know both people desire intimacy and I feel like intimacy can get blocked right, like in relationships, and I think, through the tantric practices, it's like it can cultivate this area of intimacy because it's happening one outside the bedroom and inside the bedroom at the same time. And, like, as you said, men most likely, usually most of the time, like to watch and witness and be there, and then they want these feminine, because I hear this happen a lot. When I talk to the women in my world, they say he told me he wanted a feminine woman, so I started being feminine and he couldn't handle that shit.
Speaker 2:Right, that's what I hear like regularly in regards even just the small things around, like you know, guilty of this as well, like men doing this, are you gonna be much longer again? Right, I know, right. Like, oh damn, I fucked up there. You know what I mean. Right, so like for you in terms of being able to cultivate intimacy inside and outside the bedroom, like with what you've learned. How do we do it?
Speaker 1:well so. So just speaking to that really quick, like Alison Armstrong will also teach that men are directional, focused, right? You're like you focus on one thing at a time and you have mission. You're like on a mission all the time. So it's an important thing for women to understand is you're on a mission If you know you need to get to the party by 8 o'clock? You're on a mission to get there by 8 o'clock.
Speaker 1:She doesn't really live in linear time Like sometimes, women who are super in their femininity don't have the best relationship with time. I'm just going to say it, ladies, it's true, you know, we're like getting ready. We're like we're like ritualizing everything Right and and he wants to be on time, he wants to be like punctual, he wants to get to his mission. So I actually had my friend, everett Sauteru was on my podcast and he spoke into this and was like something that he's learned is to notice that the mission is taking precedence and to make his new mission her nervous system. And if her nervous system is being pulled over, like bulldozed, by his mission to get there on time, it's going to create dissonance and then they're going to arrive to the place not in coherent like, not in a good energy, not in coherence right I love that because it's like you know in, it's like, at the end of the day, what's more important.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean, like friends, whatever, even if, because, because I've been in relationships as well where it's like they've, wayne, preferred being on time and then chaos has happened and then, like five minutes late, your fault, my fault, their fault, whatever the hell is going on. But I feel, oh, I was going to say something around there I forgot. Maybe it'll come back, maybe it'll come back at some point. Literally, I just like forgot. I was just like visualizing things that were happening in my head that have happened in like past relation. I'm like, wow, look at that. But no, I think, like him having the one, the him, making her nervous system, the mission, as you said, just makes so much sense to me.
Speaker 1:When I heard that, I was like, right, and it's like, and something that my partner and I realized too is because I can be guilty of this often and and and we're like we're always on time. And we're like we're always on time, like every time this has happened, we always get there at the exact moment we're meant to be. Not to bypass the fact that punctuality is still important, right, but there's an art and it's happening in all moments. And then, with Tantra, you know, it's about getting out of the mind and into the body and into the heart. So there are practices for that. Like Yab Yam, you know, the woman sitting crisscross, applesauce on him and facing heart to heart. So your hearts are engaged and making eye contact and sinking breath with each other. You know, and like a lot of the times, what can evaporate tension and animosity in relationship is just eye contact. It's literally just like feeling the person and not needing words, not needing words right To like to communicate. I feel like love speaks, so like words are so limiting in our ability to really feel each other and communicate. So there's that practice. And then, when your hearts are connected, you're also coming into heart coherence.
Speaker 1:And when we look at the chakra system. A man's chakra system and a woman's are opposite. So her negative pole, which is her yoni, which receives him, is his masculine pole, which is it goes out right, his lingam. So this is why she receives and he penetrates literally at the base of our being, that is our polarity, and then it goes up and then you know, her womb is a positive pole, so her sacral. This is why women are a lot more sensual, right? Because it's an outward energy we're giving and then we go up masculine. This is more of a masculine center, our willpower, our drive. That's a negative center in the female. It's a positive pole in you Heart is a positive pole in women, which is you know, I believe, why, like our breasts go out right, we're like it's the outward expression of our heart and for a man sometimes it can be harder to access the heart. So when we can come together like that, it's so scary as a dude.
Speaker 1:It is it's very vulnerable.
Speaker 2:Los guys don't want to admit it. We get scared as shit. I love that you admit it. Oh, yeah, we do. We can't not like escape it Anytime in terms of like truly opening up to someone, because we have this fear of like rejection, fear of getting shut down, fear of being not loved, fear of being like not good enough that if we truly open up to someone and we're like we fully let go of that, we're just going to get hurt. So bad People are like oh, I don't know if I want to give this person that power, you know, if it's like such a positive pull because it's still, it feels like it's a power over me, even though it's not a power at all. But we just make it up like in our heads and, oh, my goodness gracious, is what I do.
Speaker 1:What helps you feel safe to do that?
Speaker 2:Safe to open up yeah.
Speaker 2:That's a really good question. I think the safest thing to open up in that one. For guys, what makes me feel really safe is just personally. It's like when the woman leads with it, with the vulnerability, with the vulnerability, and it's like it's this beautiful thing. That's like, oh, she's in touch with her emotions so much more than like I am. She understands it and oh, she went first. All right, I can get this Because we want to, because to be good leaders in our businesses and you know, to crush it as a father we have to be that guy that can open up.
Speaker 2:Right, because if you're running a team of people and you can't open up like that, they're going to feel it, they're not going to trust you and eventually it's like men will turn into tyrannical leaders that are very direct and go this way, and then people will be like, fuck this, I'm out. But they can be aggressive and dominant if their heart is open in a business. Everyone's like, yeah, well, I get it. I can see you're frustrated. I get you being direct. I'm going to go here because I love you, know you and I can feel like where you're coming from. So I think, just the first thing it's like for me what makes me feel safe a lot of guys that I know is like one the responsibility of ourselves and taking responsibility on that. To just get safe in our own bodies, to be able to practice reps like reps in the gym, get a bit vulnerable here, get a bit vulnerable here.
Speaker 2:I think having a men's group is so powerful for that, specifically because you, your nervous system calms down when you're like, oh, everyone's just like me and this is great, and the guys are like, no, we got you. And you're like, oh, I thought I'd get rejected, but you're never going to get rejected from the men's group guys. There you might get like a bit of push and pull and challenge, but you're never going to get rejected, which is like healing. But the the second one is like you know, some of us got like for me sometimes it's like, oh, would you please just go first, like this is like so hard.
Speaker 2:And then when they do, immediately, you'll notice this, you'll see this, I've seen it happen in like, uh, some retreats that I've been in. And then, um, there's some experiences where there's been some relationship healing. And the second, the woman, goes first. The guy's like bang, like right behind. He's like ready to go the whole time, but he's like I just need to feel safe and it's like it's really beautiful to watch that's so beautiful, that uh languaging of if she leads first with her heart and with her emotions, how impactful that is for men.
Speaker 1:You know, like that's, that's such a beautiful thing because I mean, the woman does kind of lead in the relational realms we are relational creatures, right, and then you lead in in the other realms and the execution in the physical world, right, and like doing in the doing um, something that I was kind of musing on yesterday is well, because what you're talking about is that's coming from the heart.
Speaker 1:So if dominance is coming from the heart and it's coming from love, that's a healthy exertion of dominance and masculinity right Versus it coming from control and being completely calloused from your heart and from your feelings. And you know, that's where, like all of the unhealthy wounded masculinity comes from in our, in our society. Right, but to be able to be in your heart and like move from love but also like dom your dharma and men hot as shit. I was just musing on that yesterday. I was like for the, for the masculine to dom his dharma and then for the feminine to sub to her dharma, like, if we get into sub dom dynamics, you know like I'm not like super far out in the kink world but I do like the languaging and the way that it orients things for people. But yeah, it's like that energy, the tantra of that. When I say flirting with infinity is like everything is like everything is energy. And the way that we're showing up to these things, the way we're showing up to our relationship, it's going to no-transcript.