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Set The Standard
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Set The Standard
How to Remove Trauma - Modern Techniques Steven Jaggers #285
In this episode, I chat with Steven “Jagger” Jaggers Jr (Instagram: @jaggersjr), co‑founder of Somatic Release Breathwork, somatic practitioner, and host of the Mind‑Body Mentor Podcast. We dive deep into how connection heals, the “dirty fuel” of the inner critic, and why emotional digestion is essential for clarity and high-performance.
We unpack:
• Why integration = connection
• How limiting “should” blocks self-awareness
• Emotional release vs. emotional containment
• Breathing into somatic loops to complete trauma
• How somatic safety fuels masculine leadership
• Avoiding burnout & info-addiction in healing work
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🎥 YouTube: Corey Boutwell
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Living in a state of anxiety or stress, panic attacks and freaking out isn't actually normal and we blame it so regularly on our mind, on other people or just external circumstances that come into our lives, and what we don't know is that it is just stored in our body and through breath and through somatic experiences we can change everything and it's starting to change the world.
Speaker 1:If you guys haven't seen the breathwork releases, somatic releases, that are coming through the industry right now, it's really taking over and it is because it is working. And today we have one of the biggest leaders in the space, my buddy, steve Jaeger, who is one of the founders of Somatic Release, and today he's going to show you guys and teach us what to do when it comes to somatic release. So welcome to the show today, guys, jaeger. Oh, dude, let's go bro. So the thing that I wanted to talk about straight away was you with the connection piece of thinking that you know connection is the easiest way to heal, because if you're putting pressure on yourself to heal, then you're putting pressure on yourself. Man, tell me more about that I think it's important to ask.
Speaker 2:Well, for me, I ask myself all the time like, what is it that I'm really doing? Like, what is it that I'm like really trying to get to? Even when I'm working with clients in business, in my relationship, I continue to like run that question in my own turnal, like GPT, you know. I'm like what is the prompt that I'm running right now is like, what am I doing and what am I really doing? And to me, it all boils down to connection. From like a somatic perspective, healing. All it just means is integration. It's the same thing.
Speaker 2:What is integration besides like connection? It's connecting all of the parts of yourself, the emotions that you've pushed away. Maybe it's like connecting to how powerful you actually are, which most people are so afraid of that. Maybe it's connecting to my physical body. The more connected that I feel to my physical body, my emotions, my heart, the more I can connect to other people, the better quality of life I'm living.
Speaker 2:And so I've been on this, you know, and we can go down this but studied multiple different healing modalities from all the different types of body work to talk, therapy and coaching, to like the somatic side of things, to the esoteric side of things and really I'm trying to just like strip it all of the dogma and all the complexity and it's like it's actually all of it's just looking for connection, connection to yourself, so that you can connect to other people. So all of life is relationships and it's I get this visual in my head that's like you're restoring like the internet of yourself. You know, like we have this internet that's built um in the world, but we actually have an internet going on inside of our bodies and you're bringing back online all of the parts of yourself so that we can weave the internet of each other back together.
Speaker 1:I love the analogies of just like the internet, because, like, when you think about our bodies, it's like a modem, right, exactly Like this electricity, just like pulsing through our brains. We know like frequencies and radio waves are real, and it's like we hook ourselves up 100% To that, like it just makes so much sense to me. Yeah, hook ourselves up 100 to that. Like it just makes so much sense to me. Yeah, I am. I am curious, though, is like for either yourself, specifically, or just what you see is like, what are the handbrakes that get in the way that prevents people from connecting? Like what are those symptoms?
Speaker 2:yeah, there's a lot of them. I mean, I I typically try to look at it like when I work with people, I work with people on the head level, which is the mind, the heart level, which is kind of the emotions, and then the gut, which is like the physical aspect. So you kind of got to look at all three of those and you can't just address the somatic piece of it, like the body and the emotions piece, because you have to address the mind. One of the biggest things is people's inner critic, like that inner voice that just continues to like beat on you. And for me especially, dude, my inner critic is gnarly Like when it comes to, you know, being a high performing man and entrepreneur and like wanting to accomplish and create so much.
Speaker 2:I think in the beginning I utilized a lot of dirty fuel where it's like that was dirty.
Speaker 2:The dirty fuel is that voice in my head that said like you should be doing better, you should, you should be here, you should be doing this, and like that can help you for a little bit, but over time it will block your ability to connect to yourself and what you actually want.
Speaker 2:There's an easy way to say this. A mentor of mine says like a lot of the time it's the part of you that's saying should. When you notice you're saying doing should, that's pressure on you and that pressure like you're basically creating an internal war. Like how easy is it to connect to yourself and what you want versus what you should do? Like when I'm working with people, a lot of the times they're so stuck in the should, like I should be doing this, I should be doing that. That they're they. They have no idea what they actually want. Because you have to clear all the layers of should that's, all these barnacles and pressure and defense systems first, because I ask people what they want and they have such a hard time because they have all of these shoulds built up on what they should be doing.
Speaker 1:I've been having this conversation a lot with myself recently in people that I've been coaching, and I've been coming to the landing on the conclusion where it's like a lot of people just don't know what they want. And a lot of what I try to help people to do is get really clear, yeah, on what it is they want. And I come to that conclusion because I was looking at people posting a lot of podcast content and they're doing this amazing podcast content and I was like I hate you, I hate you. Why are you doing like all these awesome podcast stuff? Then I just had to reflect on my oh, I'm feeling this jealousy, I'm feeling pressure, I'm feeling all this yeah, because that's what I want to be doing.
Speaker 1:And then the second. Then I started doing podcasts. Just faded away yeah, yeah, it's.
Speaker 2:Uh, I mean that's one aspect inside the the that I started doing podcasts, it faded away. Yeah, yeah, I mean that's one aspect inside the head. I mean a lot of the times people have a hard time seeing clearly, like mentally, because they're so backed up from emotional, like undigested emotions. Like I look at we are, we're an electrical body. Right, you can talk, energy, work and all the woo, woo stuff, but like you are an electrical body, your nervous system is an antenna and the state of your antenna is going to be what your mind is picking up on. So, like if you're in a state of fear and contraction or you have all this like should energy that's pushed on yourself, like you are going to be contracted and you're going to be picking up on contracted ideas.
Speaker 2:Like all of the institutions in power understood this, if I can keep you in a state of fear, guilt, shame. Like you're not going to be able to think clearly. Like if someone, just you know, broke your heart, shattered your heart, you're not going to be able to think clearly Like if someone, just you know, broke your heart, shattered your heart. You're not thinking clearly because you're feeling so much and I work in the realms of emotional release, a lot like within breath work and body work, and it's never.
Speaker 2:People see a lot of the videos and stuff and they like see people with these emotional release. It's never about the emotional release, but it's about the space that's created from that. So you can actually see clearly we're so disconnected from our emotional spectrum that we have such a hard time making clear decisions because we have all of these undigested emotions that are just stagnant there, and so I look at it as a digestion process. We live in a world now where we're absorbing more information than our parents, our grandparents. We're absorbing so much information in a day that our grandparents probably took in their whole lifetime, and it's just getting more and more exponential.
Speaker 1:There was a study done and it's in the book the Biology of Transcendence. Yeah, and it was these German researchers and this was just their conclusion. There's like no evidence that it was real, but this is just what they, the idea that they come up with in a study, and there was a lot of evidence to back it up. But also there wasn't like any anecdotal evidence, but I still thought the concept blew my brain and it was like in I think it's like 60 years from now, from like today, because they did it and it was like you know, 110 years from now, people will be consuming so much information that if someone in 1940 was to do what someone in you know 2040, the information that they would going to have so much emotional stimulus.
Speaker 1:That is done.
Speaker 2:And then they talked about the difference between the stimulus and how it's like impacting us, and it's just dude, people are obese not just physically but mentally, like if you had a vision that you could see people and all of the undigested information that they're walking around with, like no wonder people can't think clearly and they have anxiety and depression. And like people are emotionally, uh, informationally, experientially obese. They're not actually digesting their experience and so like, and that digestion process is absorbing, and not just absorbing, but it's like assimilating and then excreting a lot of the shit that you don't need.
Speaker 1:Right, like, so you have no idea how much that hit me. I don't talk about book. I talk about books every now and then. But there's another book that I read called the origin history of consciousness, eric neumann, and he uses that digestion process for the psyche like he uses that as a yeah, like analogy, and he doesn't do it deep into it and it blew my brain and you're just saying that right now. Just have all these clicks. Whoa, that makes so much sense. Has that impacted you to business at all? Like when was the?
Speaker 1:and his struggles that you had that were just like oh shit, this is what I need to do, because I've been doing this but I've actually had to focus on digesting. I'll give you an example absolutely so.
Speaker 2:You know my, my background. I originally went to school for addiction psychology because my parents were both meth addicts. Ditch Addiction, oh, addiction, okay, addiction psychology. My parents were addicts and I'm an only child, and so I grew up always playing sports and being super physical and like I didn't really realize why that was until later on, it was because, like, I wanted to be in my body. I wanted to not think about what's going on at home, not think about what happened in the past or in the future, like playing sports, basketball, skateboarding, baseball all of the different things kept me in my body.
Speaker 2:And then so I originally studied addiction psychology, probably because I wanted to help my parents yeah and then I went down that route and it was, like you know, as soon as we started getting into the labeling of people with the dsm-4 at the time, like this is your diagnosis and then these are the prescriptions that we give you based on that does it have anything to do with that as well?
Speaker 1:just by the way, like what do?
Speaker 2:what do you mean? Like addiction to?
Speaker 1:sex. Yeah For you wanting to need to get into your body. Was there anything sex-wise that showed up so curious, absolutely.
Speaker 2:I think I've always been a very sexual human and that's been something that's been an addiction for me for sure, which we can I would, I would be super interested to get into that. But so I switched from addiction psychology. I swung the pendulum to the other side and wanted to study physical therapy. So I went from the mind route to the body route and so I started studying physical therapy anatomy, kinesiology, you know, injury rehabilitation, all of that stuff and it really felt empty to me as well. So I ended up dropping out of both and found this holistic based school that taught different forms of body work, from cranial, sacral therapy to neuromuscular therapy, to like.
Speaker 2:During that time I was kind high school, I was a heavy cannabis user and I was probably, you know, self-medicating, based on, like my parental upbringing, definitely self-medicating. I said 100% yeah. So I stopped, and when you stop smoking you get what's called REM reuptake and so you have wild, crazy dreams and I started having these lucid dreams and I started doing some research. What is this? And took me down a realm of lucid dreaming and astral projection and your energy, body and all of these different things that I was like holy shit. And so I found a school that taught a lot of like energy work in the form of polarity therapy and cranial sacral therapy, and I walked in and I was like, oh my God, this is the place. So I ended up studying that for two to three years, became a body worker, then eventually I became an instructor there because, like my teachers love me, I was so fascinated by it. They wanted me to be an assistant teacher and then I eventually became an instructor there. So I spent about five or six years like deeply immersed in that world and learning as much as I could. I was such a seeker and by the end of it I got pretty burnt out just from working with people one-to-one so much, and I needed a break because I had just absorbed so much information and so many different modalities and ways of working with people.
Speaker 2:I took two years and I lived in. I lived in Sedona, which is kind of like a spiritual Mecca, if you will, and I I didn't listen to any podcasts, read any books. I worked, I worked with clients, but I basically spent all my time hiking and just being outside and just taking space and that allowed me to really take those five or six years. Like what were the things that I found valuable and applicable and that I was using with people? What were the things that were like dogmatic and a little too much, like I've always wanted to distill it and make it, you know, digestible for the general population.
Speaker 2:So it took those two years and I truly believe that the business that I have now was because I took those two years of space and just like distilled, it's like the process of alchemy, where you take all this stuff and you distill it down to like what's its purest essence what are you actually trying to do with it? So it gave me a lot of the frameworks that I use in in somatic breath work that we still use now. Whoa, yeah.
Speaker 1:It's crazy, bro. It's been a journey.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:That is wild. I um really relate to you in regards to when you become obsessed with something, can you just grow and grow and grow and grow. But I'm interested around the burnout piece. When did you realize, when you were in business, when you were actually doing your business, of moments where you've had to use your tools yourself and had the reflection of being like oh, I gotta use this, oh man it's uh, I don't think that's a ever, that ever ends there's been, there's been points where, like I've been, I've gotten better at knowing when the burnout is coming and being able to like my awareness of self and my body and my energy levels has gotten better as time has gone on.
Speaker 2:I used to push through so much more and like to be honest with you. We went viral in 2022 or like the end of 2021. Just breathwork, content, emotional, of 2021 just breathwork content.
Speaker 2:emotional release content, breathwork content. Yeah, what kind of emotional release is anger, grief, shame? It's fascinating. I mean, when we first started, I was putting out a lot of content and me teaching a lot of the different frameworks and dynamics that we use, and I hired a social media woman and she was like you need to put out some of this content of what, like, people are going through in this, like the you know cause people go through a multitude of different emotional releases. It's not I'm never focused on like let's just work with anger, let's just work with sadness or grief, cause it's, it's based on what's organically coming up for the person. But we put out some videos of you know me working with a woman. There was consent, of course, and her having an emotional release and me being there with her in a very you know responsible way, and overnight it just started going viral.
Speaker 1:And it's intimate as well. It was intimate.
Speaker 2:People don't see a lot of intimacy like that and what the fascinating thing was was that we got thousands of messages like within the next week and most of those messages were actually not in english, which blew my mind for a second. It made me realize the global aspect of this, because I'm posting videos of me teaching but not everybody speaks English. Not everybody knows what I'm saying. Everyone speaks the language of emotions. Everyone speaks the language of the nervous system. A lot of people you know we were transcribing these messages and they're like I don't know what's going on here, but I see a human feeling and I want to feel yeah, especially in the information.
Speaker 1:Aj is like one thing that we're lacking, I think we're drained of, is like emotions emotional.
Speaker 2:I mean, yeah, emotional expression. We live in a a very numb world and for me I look at feeling. Whether it's sensation in your body or emotions, whatever it is, it's feeling is equated to your aliveness. If you're not feeling, what's the opposite of that, it's numbness. And I've heard, you know peter levine, who's kind of the father of somatics. Like he says, although humans don't really die necessarily from trauma, it severely diminishes their life and most people, like we call that a living death. It's a death with your eyes open, disease we all have. I've been there where I'm walking around and my heart's beating and I'm breathing and but like I'm not feeling anything.
Speaker 1:It makes so much sense. It's like disassociation. Yeah, one of my friends is like a senior lawyer, like a real close, and he'd been like high up. There's a lot of lawyers studying this, like one law degree. At the moment they only give to like 50 people in Australia per year. It's wild. But he said to me and it was like if someone goes through really severe trauma, especially as a child, and their nervous system is like wild for that trauma, and he's like if it was like an abuser or violence, something that they experienced, which is really bad Because like they're basically the government basically signed them off as just like, oh, give them a lot of money because they're not going to have much of the future, like this person that's in Australia, right, yeah, wow.
Speaker 1:Yeah, much of the future. Like this person, australia, right, yeah, wow, yeah, if they sue someone or they figured something out, whatever it is, there's abuser, that government, he had a lot of money because, like you know, this does not much you're gonna be able to do. Yeah, that's. That's like the attitude that the lawyers have and falls people who have gone through like crazy amounts of trauma. And one part of me like also like blew my brain. I was like what. Yeah, the other part of me also like blew my brain. I was like what.
Speaker 1:And the other part of me was just like realize, like, oh, it makes sense. Like, if you've got massive amount of trauma or if you haven't worked on your stuff, like you're going to be disassociated. And then the other part of me got like a bit angry hearing that that was happening Cause I'm like, but we can fix this. You know what I mean. Like a lot of this stuff can can be healed. And, yeah, sometimes, like for different people, it's like there's a lot of work you're going to do, but if you're willing to do it, face the fear that you've been challenged to face yeah, and so let's just throw money at it.
Speaker 2:You know, that's like uh, that's like a absent father type energy.
Speaker 2:Let's just, let's just like throw money at the absent like, oh sorry, kid, like got to work over here, I got to do stuff, like I know you're hurting, but let's here, I'll just give you some money. Yeah, it's, it's that's unfortunate, but I mean it's interesting because, like trauma, there's so much talk about it. It's trauma is not the thing that's like happening to you, it's what's happening inside of your body and it's different. We're all. We all like it could be something that's massively intense for me, but maybe it doesn't.
Speaker 2:You don't respond to it. It's subjective, like it could be a little thing that I went through, like someone just told me to like shut up when I was singing and then I like my voice now has been like constricted for the rest of my life. And it's the thing about trauma too, is it's it's always an intelligent response, like it's designed to protect you, but if we don't know how to shut it off, then it becomes a thing that blocks us. It's like the way that we protect ourselves from feeling pain can help us in the moment, but over time it becomes the thing that blocks us from our ability to feel ourselves. You call that like adaptive at one point, and then what's adaptive becomes maladaptive.
Speaker 1:So have what things for you have prevented you from like where you've wanted to succeed in business or you wanted to, like you know, know, have something happen in your relationship where you've had a strong intention to, but then this has like got in the way yeah, so growing up in a pretty dysregulated household like I, what is your parents with methodics right?
Speaker 2:both of them, yeah both of them, um, alcohol, matt, like all the different types of drugs, and then they eventually went to rehab and then got clean from that and then switched to prescription medications which were still causing the same stuff over and over again. So you know, growing up in a dysregulated household and as a child you're, you're so sensitive Like you're we're not designed to regulate ourselves. As a child we're we are co-regulating animals, right? We, when we come out of the womb, we actually need our mom, like our parents are. Are God more plugged into them? So what's happening in their nervous system is also happening in in ours. Until we go through the individuation process of, like, cool, I start to crawl and then I move a little bit further, and then I come back and then I learn how to walk and then I can get a little bit further. Then eventually I get a car and then I can go further and then eventually I move out and by that time, hopefully, our parents have taught us how to self-regulate ourselves.
Speaker 2:But you know, growing up in a pretty chaotic household, like my defense system was, I had kind of two ways of protecting myself, which one was I became super sensitive and hyper vigilant where I would just pick up on everything, like I would look at their faces to tell it's like cool, are they on something right now? Are they about to have an argument? Like I just became so sensitive and wanted to almost like a people-pleasing type energy, like I wanted to call it a fawn response, where it's like you're wanting to. I wanted to morph myself into whatever I felt like they needed, right. So then I would just completely collapse into you know, whatever their dysregulation was, and then I would do that I would try to help fix. I remember going to my mom like what can I do to help you? And I.
Speaker 2:And then eventually I would get so either burnt out or just lose myself in it that I would swing the pendulum to the other side and just throw up this massive wall and like, just like, leave and go, stay at my friend's house for multiple days. And that same pattern I've watched in every relationship, romantic relationship that I've had. I've watched in every in my business relationship, because I have a co-founder and I have like um, we built this together with a multitude of people, close friends of mine and I've watched where I'm fully in it and I'm trying to fix everything and I'm like just lose myself in it or in relationships I've like just given everything and lost my sense of self. And then at some point I'm like, holy fuck, this is too much. And then I swing the pendulum and then I completely disconnect and throw up this massive avoidant wall within myself and so it's disorganized attachment. Yeah, I guess I don't know exactly that Sometimes it's anxious and sometimes it's avoiding. It depends on the person, it depends on the situation.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's insane. I went to a workshop the other week and I think it was on disorganized it. Yeah, it's insane. I went to a workshop the other week and this, I think this it was on disorganized. It was on like anxious and avoided attachment at kuya, yeah, and there's a lady facilitating it. She's had a terminology. She was like there's one in there which just kind of do yeah, but you do both at the same time, yeah and um, I'm like that is I didn't realize that I'd been in that before as well just like that chaotic energy of like come in and also I relate to you so much because it's like for me, I didn't, I didn't realize it was like my last relationship is like I confirmed my identity from being the guy that could heal you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because I'm good at that. But then I just completely avoid myself. And then, like you know, struggles happen in business. I'm like I've got the energy for that, I can't bother. We have another fight. And then I, you know, struggles happen in business. I'm like I've got the energy for that, I can't bother. We have another fight. And then I'd be like, oh, I need to like avoid this yeah, I'm like why am I so tired?
Speaker 1:I eat so well, I train so well, I do everything else, so what the fuck's?
Speaker 2:going on. Yeah, dude, I resonate with that. I mean, it's. It's really easy to get your sense of like, like it's a fake vulnerability when you're working on any everyone else's stuff, cause you get that felt sense of like. Oh my God, we're going to the depths together and like, but are you actually the one that's being vulnerable in a way? Are you actually it's? It's a it's a tricky thing that I watch a lot of coaches and practitioners go through. Where it's you can get that felt sense of like you're having a deep connection with people, but it's empty and it's not a good it's it's. You have to get that elsewhere, outside of outside of that dynamic. And yeah, I've I've gone through that a multitude of times.
Speaker 2:For me, there was a big shift, maybe like a year and a half ago of that, to be on a path of supporting other humans or other people in any sort of way. The number one thing that you have to dedicate to is your own self-awareness, because none of us help or fix another person like we don't heal another person. This goes back to the beginning, where a lot of us have that inner fixer inside of ourselves where we're saying like, if I'm so focused on my own healing, I'm creating the opposing force that says something is wrong with me and that I'm broken. We live in a duality. You can't. It's very subtle and it's very sneaky. But if you're like pressuring yourself to go on this healing journey, probably you're relating to yourself in a place that something's broken and you need to fix it. Where it's like, no one's broken, most time there's something just stuck that needs to move, and so even when I'm working with my clients like people can tell me all of the heavy stuff that's going on I'm not necessarily ever relating to them in a way like I'm going to fix your stuff because, one, that's a ton of pressure on my shoulders, because now I'm responsible for the fixing and I did that for a long time, burnt myself out that way.
Speaker 2:And then, two, you're now looking at this person and sending them the energy of that. They're broken and there's something wrong with them, where there's more intelligence in their body than your mind can ever even fathom. Like they're digesting their food, they're beating their heart, their hair's growing, like our minds can't even fathom the process of that. So how am I to know what's gonna heal this person? I just wanna create a space where I can co-regulate with them and really just point out the intelligence, like, of what's going on. That's been like the, the and there's other techniques and stuff like that. But being in a way where I'm honoring how much can I honor the innate intelligence of what's going on in your system and everything that you've gone through in your life and how it shaped you and molded you and like how can I help you see how intelligent that was? Because most of the time when we see how much it helped us, that's usually the ticket to take the pressure off of ourselves and then a lot of times it unfolds from there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I so get that with that stuck feeling. What do people do if they've got like, um that situation I'd like to hear how you relate to this when they are facing off with like a love or like a sex addiction?
Speaker 1:when they're also in denial and they don't know what happens. So I was talking about this with someone last night. I was on a date last night and we were talking about it and I remember I was just like what blew my brain was like all the girls talking about like there's girls that do like, do OnlyFans, and how much money that they make by OnlyFans. They'll make a lot of money. But then I flipped that around and I was like well, it's not so much the money that they're making, but who's spending the money on OnlyFans. Cause, like for me, it was like a part of my journey to talk about this a lot. My audience like I quit masturbating like five, six years ago, something like that. I just quit it. Yeah, that I just quit it. Yeah, I was like I'm just never going to do this again for the foreseeable future. Like no way. How's it been for you? Fantastic, bro. Yeah, the realiveness starts to come back, bro. But then it's just like for me, it's like well, also, I'm like I want to deal with the frustration of I will, how am I going to ejaculate? Yeah, sex all right, but then when you have an ejaculator for like two, three months, you're like I'm sensitive, I don't want to have sex, just any part, like there's no way. So I'm like I want to put myself in that position so that I have the energy to find a wife. You know what I mean. And it's like I've just had like the best relationships, the best dates and the best experiences and I was like, well, I'm so happy I did that.
Speaker 1:But I was still like fuck man. It's like people are spending money, like the men are. I'm like the only fans. You know the whole thing. And just porn is fueling men's insecurity and toxicity. I'm like it's gotta go. Like you're fueling men's yeah, bad mental health in men. Like it's not good. You know what I mean. So like for me it was like, well, like even when, because I watched a lot of porn when I was in my early 20s and I was like heavily addicted, but I didn't realize I was even addicted. But then for me it translated into I would get so attached to women, yeah, and I was just like, oh, I'm like craving intimacy. I didn't realize that there's like there's love and sex addiction. So I just love to hear, like your, that's a big it's a big topic.
Speaker 2:And yeah, let's, I've I've experienced that as well too Like there's been a there's been multiple relationships that I've been in that I'm like because I'm sensitive as well and I I don't I've never been a person that I want to go hook up with a bunch of people, but I'm obviously I have a high sex drive as well. Sex drive as well, and yeah, there's been multiple relationships where I'm like I think I was actually in this relationship because I like I just wanted sex.
Speaker 2:And it was was it hard to admit to yourself so hard to admit to myself Like it when I took that piece out did you use breath to get rid of it?
Speaker 1:Like to take the piece out?
Speaker 2:I used the breath to figure out which emotions I was avoiding feeling, because that's the thing, that, that's the underlying force, like whatever addiction it is. You know, gabor Monte says the opposite of addiction is connection. The opposite of addiction is connection. It's not sobriety, because, whatever the addiction, it's giving you something and it's helping in some sort of way. It's helping you to connect or disconnect from something. So what is it like? What is it that you're trying to connect to? Or what is it that you're running away from? And most of the time it's. It's. For me, it was emotions that I didn't want to let myself feel like. Well, what emotions I'm like dying.
Speaker 1:I'm like yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Um, the full spectrum of them. You know there's a lot of them. There was a lot of, I think. First it would go into like deep sadness of like wanting to have connection with my mother. I remember going into her room multiple times and wondering like and I don't know exactly what's going on because I'm a child but like, hey, why can't you get out of bed? Like, hey, come to my sports games. Hey, meet my friends. Hey, hey, why can't you get out of bed? Like, hey, come to my sports games. Hey, meet my friends. Hey, come out and play with me. So there was a deep sadness there, and beyond that, it's like grief, like grief.
Speaker 2:I think grief is fascinating man. That's probably the emotion I've avoided the most. And also like there's anger underneath that sadness, because, well, anger, actually probably on the top, because I was angry like why didn't you guys give me a life that I wanted, right? And then underneath it was like sadness, because I just wanted love, but underneath that was the grief of not really experiencing a normal childhood or not really the letting go of multiple chapters of my life, I mean, even in grief, is something that I'm continuing to go deeper into and I have a hard time accessing it, like I literally have to sit my ass down and use what's been a entry point for me is like nostalgia. Nostalgia, I think, is a great entry point into grief, and grief allows us to move forward into the future.
Speaker 2:Like clean, I was hopping from relationship to relationship and never grieving the not just the relationship but the person that I was in the relationship, the story that both of us were painting together of how life was going to be when we were together. I had to grieve like well, I realized how much I wasn't grieving that. And so if I'm not feeling that, then I need something to numb myself from feeling that. And a little side note that might help people understand this deeper is that if you are numbing yourself which we all are, in a multitude of ways whether it's porn, sex, whether it's work, 100% entrepreneurial, grind the pressure of that and scrolling, scrolling, goodness and all the other ones, like you know, alcohol food and all the other ones like you know, alcohol food Numbness is actually it's not passive Numbness actually requires a tremendous amount of energy from yourself.
Speaker 2:That's why we, that's why we, utilize all these different things, that's why I need porn or I need these other things, because it's hard for me to numb, because feeling and sensing is how I was born into the world. That's our default state, or default state A child. They come out of the womb, something happens to them, they're feeling fucking everything. That's your default state, and so numbness when I'm pushing something down, that's the thing that requires the most energy.
Speaker 1:Uh, it makes so much sense.
Speaker 2:So so that's why you get so tired from numbing, because feeling and sensing is your default state.
Speaker 2:They call this from a body perspective it's called parasitic tension, like just and you know you work out and and obviously take care of your body but like from a from a body work perspective, like so many people have tension in their neck and shoulders or tension in their in places that there shouldn't necessarily be a bunch of tension. But it takes energy from your nervous system to contract a muscle right. It's not like you're, you're contracting your bicep, it's a neural, muscular thing that requires the electricity. So it takes energy from your system to keep those muscles contracted where that energy could go to other things, like repairing on a cellular level, like digesting your food, which is the most energy intensive thing in your body. The same thing happens on an emotional level is when I have a bunch of emotional backlog that I haven't let myself feel, it's taking more energy for me to continue to numb it and push it down. That's why I'm looking for external things to help me in the process of numbing it, because it requires so much energy.
Speaker 1:Newsflash you're supposed to feel overwhelmed supposed to feel overwhelmed?
Speaker 2:you are, yeah. Well, yeah, I mean, in my opinion, like all of the emotions felt all the way through, at the end of it is joy and pleasure yeah, I've experienced that at the end of because I do like men's work retreat.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and throughout that retreat. So it's funny you say that we do head, heart, gut as well. Yeah, like, we facilitate each day. So there's like a head, there's a heart, there's a gut that goes through each experience and we also play through the realms of like, okay, you can experience like a negative emotion, then you're going to experience a really positive emotion and we go negative, positive, negative, positive, negative, positive to like really expand someone's capacity to feel and by the end of the weekend, when, like I'm looking at people in their eyes and their face, there is like this fucking energy of intimacy, man that like I, like, I'm like, oh, this is such a high, like I'm legitimately high on intimacy with the bros that I've been able to connect with why do you think?
Speaker 2:what do you think creates that?
Speaker 1:I think it is the polarity of the emotion that they're feeling, because it's kind of like, for example, I think about it as like two springs right, and they've kind of come down like two springs, if you think of just in a chamber, and they come down and they've like smacked each other. And if you think like if the springs are touching each other, that is numbness. And then what happens is with each exercise we smack one spring back up and we smack another spring down, smack another spring back up, smack them down, and then we just open the channel and then just what gets filled in with that is the emotions that they're supposed to feel. But also it's the same way If you haven't felt any of those emotions in a long time. It's a new emotional experience. It is like what am I feeling right now?
Speaker 1:Remember this one guy. It was after a rage release. He was just sitting down against his wall like this right, his face was sagging, his hands on his knees, his whole body was slumped over and he was just kind of shaking his head, just like, with his eyes kind of open, and he and he just said we just talked to him, hey, man, what's coming up for you? And everyone was like I've I've never felt an emotion until now. I'm just, I'm just witnessing my body, feeling emotions. But what I also know is that like for me is like you know, you know it's like you run all the retreats right. You've run so many retreats and done so many experiences with people and I'd like to know this for you as well. For me it was like the more that I do retreats, it's like that I don't get the same high out of them yeah I'm becoming a better leader, but it's not as like I have this new experience of an emotion.
Speaker 1:It was like the very first two retreats that we did. I remember I was hot and the week after I was like I was like falling asleep, like I'm so tired, and now when we, when we run them, like I'm good to go in like a day or two, but I don't get the, the, the, the intensity of the high, of feeling a new emotion.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I resonate and I I feel the same. I want to go back for just a second, because that intimacy piece I think is so important, like I asked you, like what creates that? And for me I've noticed in these retreats and in trainings and whatnot the practitioner training specifically, when people go through emotional release, and it's not just them by themselves, it's that they're in the presence of somebody else. What creates what happens is it's it's vulnerability, right, vulnerability is I'm showing you all of the parts of myself and what do they say is like the foundation of relationship, or intimacy, more than anything.
Speaker 1:Yeah, vulnerability.
Speaker 2:Vulnerability, trust, trust, yeah, what creates trust? Safety, safety. But how do I create the safety for you? Is that when I show you all of the parts of myself, when I show you that I'm in the deepest of my sadness and I show you I'm giving you the power to shoot you?
Speaker 1:down.
Speaker 2:I'm giving you the power. Yeah, I'm vulnerable and I'm completely, but I'm showing you all of me but then in your nervous system you recognize that I'm not holding anything back from you. So your system can actually start to feel more safe because it really it's not like like you can always feel when you're in a relationship and there's a bunch of shit that's over here that they're like holding from telling you oh yeah, it's the worst it's the worst feeling, yeah, but when you see somebody go through the full spectrum of their emotions, you just witnessed all of them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's intense to be in a relationship with someone like that. Like I remember at the start, like when my ex and we were first in a relationship, I was just fresh out of doing a whole bunch of work. She's like seven years younger than me, hasn't really been induced to do any of the work before, and I was just like here, like here's my whole heart and everything on a table, and she was like, ah, I wanted to like run away. Yeah, this is really intimidating.
Speaker 2:yeah, um, and especially as a man too, because there's there's a lot there. But to answer your question that you just asked me um, why does it like? Why does it hit you hard in the beginning of doing this work and maybe later on it's not so much. A lot of the times, when we first get into this, there is such a plug that's been there that we have so much that's built up that that amount of catharsis and that amount of release is just so powerful. But at some point you don't necessarily those like powerful cathartic releases anymore and maybe if you go, if you're going through something specific, then it can be very helpful.
Speaker 2:But after time, like what we call that is an, is a, is a discharge or an expression, right, and I've talked about that pressure like, for example, the should energy, where you are putting pressure on your ability to x, the pressure to express, and everyone, all of life, I would say, is looking for its own unique expression. Right, we're all. If you look at plants, animals, everything out there is just expressing themselves and it has its own unique expression. And so when someone's been so suppressed or repressed for a long time and it's so bottled up that the expression that comes out in the beginning is a lot of the stuff that's that's bogged down, a lot of the emotional muddy stuff first, and then, once you move through a lot of those layers unless you're going through something really intense right now then it becomes like how do I turn my expression into an art form?
Speaker 2:Like some of the most stressed out people that I know have created the best music, the most incredible art, the best businesses and a lot of the times it takes working through those emotional stuff first, but then it's about how do I channel this into an art form? Right, and there's a lot of. I see a lot of energy in like that realm of emotional release and somatics and men's work and where it's. It's all about the release and that's one part of it, but it's like it's about the space that's created from that release to bring in how do you wanna feel, how do you wanna show up, what do you wanna embody? And like, how often can we stay in that place of firing and wiring the elevated emotions back into us? And part of that is like learning how to contain ourselves. So there's what do you?
Speaker 1:mean by contain.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so there's. We're talking about the emotional release, which is the expression which is so helpful for all of us, especially the people that have been so suppressed and haven't let themselves feel an emotion for so long. And so there's suppression, which is like I'm just going to continue to numb and hold all this stuff in. But there's also containment. Containment is, in my opinion, like how someone becomes an adult.
Speaker 2:You look at a child who they're so in touch with their innate intelligence. In their body, something you know happens to them. They throw a temper tantrum, they express it, they know how to move it through their body, but they know that. Or you know happens to them. They throw a temper tantrum, they express it, they know how to move it through their body, but they know that. Or you know, as a parent, your job is to teach them. Well, you can't just do this in the grocery store, you can't do this at school, but let's show you at home, like here's the place, let's create a space, a time, a practice of moving this through my body, and it's okay to let yourself feel emotions in this sort of way. Containment is like the, the barriers of the walls that you create to actually channel that expression. Does that make sense? Oh?
Speaker 1:yeah so, but what is, what is? What does containment look like then in the real world, when, like, if you, if you've got, if you feel like, oh, that guy's like.
Speaker 2:Containment. I'll give you an example that, uh, like I messed this up a lot in my last relationship she would be expressing something that is wrong or something that's bothering her, or coming to me with an emotion, and she would be expressing, and then so I would then express what I'm feeling, and that would that's. That would cause even more issues. So then we'd both be expressing and then it would just cause all this one fire. Yeah, it would just fire, it would fire, fire, fire versus like.
Speaker 2:Do I have the ability to actually contain what I'm expressing right now? Can I hold it in a way where it's not suppressing it, where I'm not numbing out to it, but can I hold it within me to show up and create the space for her to express right now and feel seen and heard in that, knowing that I'll have a time and a place in my therapy or in my you know, in a different container, to be able to express that Right, it's, it's learning like, when and where and being in touch with your body, knowing that, okay, I actually do need an anger release right now, or I do need to sit my ass down and feel some grief. It's kind of like that's the next form of like starting to learn emotional intelligence, in my opinion, yeah, so the the, the simple.
Speaker 1:so the real basic way of saying that is learning to shut up and then delaying the process of actually processing it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, knowing that you are resourced enough that you're not going to go to the tools that are helping you numb it, but you are resourced enough that I have the tools and techniques and know at a certain time that I'm feeling this and it's okay for me to feel this, like I don't have to just like emotional vomit on everyone around me, right?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So there's, there's that aspect of where I'm seeing some of that in this sort of healing community, where it's like let's just have emotional release and express all over each other. It's like, no, I might be feeling really sad right now and I might need to hold it for a moment, knowing that I have a place and a space and I have the tools and techniques to be able to work through it later on.
Speaker 1:Why you said before and why community and connection is just so important.
Speaker 2:So important.
Speaker 1:I had one mentor. It was one of the first retreats that I went to and I was asking a question around like leadership and leading, like my team and stuff like that. I was like oh, I just have this knee where I'm always just like you know. I can't remember what the thing was, but I remember just saying like how do I get over that? He's like you just shut up, just said shut up, and I was like okay, I could like take this on board and like literally, literally. I'm so grateful for how he said it because he came across like you shut up, you talk too much. And then so there's been stuck in my head through a lot of moments where I've had leadership come up and I've just learned to shut up and observe while I'm in there and I've been like I wish someone told me this when I was young.
Speaker 1:Like this is such a superpower of a skill of just like waiting, witnessing, actually thinking and not just letting what I feel the surface out, yeah, like there's, it's, it's like that victor frankl quote there's a, there's a space between the stimulus and the response.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, and in that space is like you're, that's where the power lies, right it's the ability to choose.
Speaker 2:The ability to choose right choices are human superpower and I like I mean that's why we regulate our nervous system or heal our trauma anyways. Or like, do all of this work to create more space between stimulus and response? Because if not, then I'm just reactive, like if somebody's getting triggered, it's because something that's happening is activating this part of me that has a defense mechanism around it, and so if I'm reactive all the time, I actually don't have choice in my life. I don't have free will anymore. Like my life is starting to be played out for me, and a lot of the time it's based off the wounding that I have inside of me. And so why do this work?
Speaker 2:To begin with, it's to create more spaciousness, and we talked about, like most of us are informationally and emotionally obese. We have no space. We have no space. Think about, in conversations, most of us are thinking about the next thing that I'm going to say, versus actually having the space and the capacity to listen to what you're saying. Do I actually have enough inner spaciousness to receive what you're saying, digest it in that moment and actually say the thing that needs to be said?
Speaker 1:And then respond, and then respond right In a way that's authentic.
Speaker 2:In a way that's authentic, in a way that's attuned. I'd be curious someone asked me this the other day would you be open to like what's your definition of leadership? Oh nice.
Speaker 1:Like what's the definition of it for you?
Speaker 2:I have, I have a definition you do okay, cool, I don't yet, but I'm like this is really like sitting with well, I teach a lot of masculine leadership, right, so you know.
Speaker 1:So this is like men's work stuff. So we teach a lot of masculine leadership and, um, we learn a lot of social dynamics. We do a lot of like dating stuff. We do business stuff, health like whatever it is. Learn a lot of social dynamics. We do a lot of like dating stuff, we do business stuff, health like whatever it is. Um, and for me it's just one word facilitation.
Speaker 1:I like this because where it comes from is like have you ever read greek myth? Some some so in greek myth, why I can't remember what book, which book it was I was reading it in. But they're like there's two key sins in greek myth. One is murder, right, murdering someone's the worst. The second big sin is being a shit host, wow, which is why in all mythology and stories and fantasies, there's all these rules.
Speaker 1:If you go to the land of fairy or you go to like a vampire's place, whatever it is, you still go to someone's house. They'll offer you drink or food and you have to say yes, and you see that happen in movies. You will start to see it now and they play this game of host and guest, right? Yeah, so in greek myths it's like, if you're a bad host, yeah, you um, like it's a sin, right, but the worst thing to do is be a host and then murder someone in your house, which is why the ultimate thing of like you go to a vampire's house and they'll host you, they'll give you food, they'll whine you and then, when you least expect it, they'll kill you and suck all your blood out right and turn you into a vampire as well.
Speaker 1:That's why that story's played out everywhere yeah so for me it's like you know is as a leader, because there's multiple different ways to facilitate. It's like you're just creating an experience where you're the host. And I remember I was at um to doing a bunch of leadership training and stuff, as well as at a, an event, and we had to like break off into like a breakoff room and there was like there's like 500 people at this event. We were like 30 people uh, in a, in a team, and we had to like come up with an idea and pitch it. And I remember I was like I want to win because I'm competitive, but I had like energy. Usually I like being at the front because we do retreats and stuff, so I'm out there like everyone do this. I was like I can't be bothered doing anything. So I remember I just asked questions. I made us all huddle in a circle. I was like everyone huddle in a circle because people get shy. They don't want to tell people what to do, especially in Australia. So I'm like everyone get in a your thoughts and blah, blah, blah. Then everyone would come up to me oh Corey, do you want to speak and pitch? I'm like absolutely not. It was this guy's idea, let's get him to pitch.
Speaker 1:And I remember just being in this situation and I was like, oh, this is good leadership here, I'm just facilitating this. But it also happens when I people to come to my house. I got to message everyone. I got to see them a couple of weeks beforehand. We got to talk, I got to be in connection. There has to be like I have to actually like have a good setup at my house. We had like four beer pong tables. We'd have like five beer bongs. We had all this stuff. We made sure I had like DJ speakers at the event, right, people come. I told people to like whatever it is. So you know these little details but it creates a great experience.
Speaker 1:So even when I'd have a barbecue at like a house or something, I was like, oh, this is happening. But then it's the same thing when it's like you go out on a date or take your partner out on a date. So, because the women always go, I want a guy that like picks the place and blah, blah, blah. If you know what you want in terms of leadership, you're all right. I gotta know what I want her to wear, what am? Am I feeling her vibe in? Like what would I like her to look like? What is it that you know where? Like somewhere that could be good for both of us to eat? Or is it like, okay, I'm going to choosing for her? Am I choosing for me this time? Maybe I want this, maybe I want to choose something to like, please her, or maybe I'm going to please myself.
Speaker 2:I was, like, what time is that going? Facilitating an experience yeah, so that's my definition, dude. I love that and like I love the idea of hosting too, because I teach hosting is not just, yeah, everything that you just spoke to, like paying attention to all the little subtle details as well, but hosting also happens like can I host your emotional experience inside of myself?
Speaker 2:I was actually gonna ask you a question can I host, can I? Can I be enough of a leader that, where I can for my team, can I allow them to all come to me and do I have enough spaciousness and can I listen and host all of the stuff that they're going through inside of myself? We teach that as, like attunement, it's the moment to moment relating, and it's happening on a nervous system level, like you have an electrical bubble around you, I have an electrical bubble around me. This happens if you're on a date as well, too, like when my electrical bubble is communicating with yours. They call it chemistry, but it also it happens on an electrical level. First it's like my bubble is communicating with yours.
Speaker 2:They call it chemistry, but it also it happens on an electrical level. First it's like my bubble is communicating with your bubble and then it's releasing different things inside of me that we call chemistry, right, but but within that is like a woman and your team. People can feel if you're actually able to host them with inside of yourself, can you actually do you have enough host them with inside of yourself? Can you actually do? You have enough sturdiness, foundation within yourself that you can host them and not lose yourself in that?
Speaker 1:that's where turn on happens. Men figure out. Oh, why can't I turn on my partner? Why doesn't she want to have sex? To me it's like bro, is she hosting herself out there?
Speaker 1:he went and shit dude that makes so much sense. I actually had a one point that I wanted to speak to in regards to for this because I've been thinking about this a lot recently and it's something that's happened to me was like how people's nervous systems regulate to each other. Like, literally, if it's like a friend, business partner or something else and, let's say, your nervous system uh, tunes to someone who's suffered a shitload of trauma, it's like, yeah, you then go through secondary trauma, you have a secondary response, and I feel like a lot of people in the world will think like, oh, this is my trauma and there's this thing, and I'm like that's why it's so important to be around people. What they say, like you know, you become the five people you're around.
Speaker 2:I'm like but it's science.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because your nervous system is regulating to this. Yeah, like you're actually going through limbic resonance.
Speaker 2:Yeah like, oh my god, they call it mirror neurons or it's co-regulating to this, like you're actually going through limbic resonance. Yeah, they call it mirror neurons or it's co-regulation, but the same thing, you can co-disregulate too. Another definition and like trait that I think makes a good leader is being able to hold a certain state for other people to entrain to you, meaning that, like if you got someone that you're around that's really dysregulated, you're not going to co-dysregulate with them, you're going to maintain your own, like you can host them, you can feel with them, but you're not going to lose yourself in that, and that's it's tough for most. It's tough for a lot of people. I mean the the world out there, like most people, are finding connection through co-dysregulation.
Speaker 2:It's oh, did you see what happened on the news? Oh, yeah, I saw what happened on the news. Oh, my God, that's so terrible. Oh, yeah, it's terrible. This is the world is a terrible place, right. So they're connecting over their stressors versus like connecting and helping each other feel safer and move into a more of a relaxed, regulated state. But it requires one person at least to maintain what I call like mountain energy yeah, that's what people say, like oh, that guy's solid.
Speaker 1:It's like that guy's solid. He's just not allowing other people to just regulate him.
Speaker 2:He's solid. He's also open, porous, like because you could be solid and have walls built up all around you, but you could be that like what I call it mountain energy, because it's like a mountain doesn't give a shit if it's rain or if it's wind, hail, snow, fire, it's fucking unmovable. It's a mountain, it's a mountain, it doesn't matter, it's still unmovable. It's a mountain, it's a mountain, it doesn't matter, it's still going to be there. You got your woman who's going through a complete you know just emotional fit or whatever Like can you still hold the presence there, stay open but also not lose yourself in it and not become reactive? That's amazing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I realized recently that I had a lot of secondary like trauma and like my body like yeah, like from someone else, and I was like, okay, intellectually I feel like I've processed it. Yeah, like emotionally I feel like a lot of that's been cleared, but I'm like I still know that it's in my body yeah how do I get rid of that?
Speaker 2:yeah, dude, you can talk about it as much as you want. Um, that still doesn't mean that your body's not in the presence of a tiger, right, like so. A lot of it does. So we could go back to head, heart, gut, like so, when we're looking at the gut or the body or the nervous system, it's looking at what did your physical body need to do in the moment of that stressor, but it never had the opportunity to do it. Your being is looking for completion.
Speaker 2:Trauma is an intelligent defense system that comes up inside of you that becomes activated. People don't release it, but it just becomes deactivated. Right, it's a defense system that's helping you, but it just becomes deactivated. Right, it's a defense system that's helping you. And how it gets deactivated is by you completing whatever you needed to do in that moment but never had the opportunity to do so.
Speaker 2:Maybe it was like running as fast as you could, maybe it was like punching something, maybe it was like shaking. Maybe it was whatever the physical body needed to do in that moment of a stressor, but it never had the opportunity to do it. And this is we could get into breathwork, because breathwork actually really the way that I utilize it, is to help create a space for your being and your organism to complete whatever it needed to do an emotional level too. A lot of the times, the release of the emotion, or the discharge, is the signal to your nervous system that the threat has been solved, that you're not in the presence of a stressor anymore, so you could work through it all through your mind, but your heart and your gut, or your body or your soma, still thinks that it's in the presence of a tiger because it's never completed the thing that it needed to do in the moment.
Speaker 2:You got to complete that loop. Baby Got to complete the loop. So and your mind doesn't necessarily have to know, like I don't need to think back in the moment Like what is the thing that I needed to do? A lot of the times we can, we can create a space, and this is why I love breath work. It's so powerful and I never thought I was going to be like a breath work teacher.
Speaker 2:Um, but what you're doing and a lot of people don't realize this is in a safe container. If you have a practitioner facilitator that's well-trained, we can create a space for you to mimic a stress response, like when someone's breathing heavily, like if, if I was being chased by a tiger, how would I be breathing. So we can kind of titrate you and take you into that and mimic the stress response. You're mimicking a state of trauma in your body, in your mind. You know you're safe and so that's why, a lot of the times, people's emotions start to come up and the physical body starts to do all these crazy movements, because we're mimicking the state of what they they and the thing that they needed to do in the moment that their body knows what it needs to do. It just needs to feel safe enough to do that.
Speaker 1:Somatic release baby. So if people want to go and get their license. Because I had a friend who said to me, by the way, when I was here in austin, when we're good friends he was like, dude, there's the best breathwork facilitator training here. And I was like, oh my gosh, he's like, but it was like started yesterday and I was like, ah, shit, I want to go on right. And um, and he's like and like, these guys are just like fantastic, like Like you have to meet him. And then it was funny that I met you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I met you at Honour, it was.
Speaker 1:Eric. And then I was talking to Eric and then he was like yeah, yo have you seen these guys logo? And he said mentioned, we're talking about logos. And I was like, oh, that's my buddy Jager.
Speaker 2:And he was like what, where can they go to find you? Where can they go to get involved in any of your trainings or meet some of your you know coaches or anything like that? Yeah, I appreciate you. Um, if you're looking to just get a session, we have breathworknearmecom. We have practitioner in over like 40 different countries that do sessions in a multitude of different languages. Um somaticbreathworkcom, you can check out all our practitioner trainings. We're fully accredited by arizona state university. So if you're a therapist or you need actual like credits for continuing education um, we got you on that. You can find us, basically, social media, somatic breathwork everywhere. Youtube oh God, I got a podcast as well. Mind body mentor. As you could tell, I love nerding out on this stuff, so it's the best, bro.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much yeah, thanks for having me, cory. It was a pleasure. I'm glad we were able to do this absolutely let's go.