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Set The Standard
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Set The Standard
The Crisis of Masculinity: People Pleasing & Heart Break
Most men say they want purpose… but they’re actually addicted to struggle.
In this episode, I sit down with JR Harvey founder of Kings Community and one of the most grounded, embodied mentors for men in the game to unpack what’s really keeping men stuck.
We go deep on:
• Why “managing pain” isn’t healing
• The nervous system cost of constantly performing
• Why men lead best when they stop trying to be liked
• The addiction to helping others as a way to avoid yourself
• And the real reason your relationship or leadership keeps collapsing
This conversation isn’t for the guys looking for more mindset hacks.
This is for the men who are ready to actually feel, lead with clarity, and build something sacred from a solid nervous system not from pressure and pretend power.
If you’re over the noise, stuck in your head, or feel like the leader version of you is hiding this one will flip the switch.
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🔗 LINKS TO JR HARVEY
Kings Community → https://www.instagram.com/kings__community/
🔗 LINKS TO COREY
IG: https://www.instagram.com/coreyboutwell
1:1 Coaching Application: https://www.coreyboutwell.net/speaksoon
⏱ TIMESTAMPS
00:00 Intro – Meet JR Harvey
01:12 Why Most Men Are Addicted to Pressure
03:45 Nervous System vs Nervous System Games
06:30 The Illusion of “Helping” While Avoiding Yourself
09:01 Leading Without Performing
12:20 What’s Under Your Need to Fix
15:10 Why “Doing The Work” Can Be a Trap
18:02 Sex, Shame, and Self-Betrayal
22:49 Building Brotherhood From Authenticity
25:50 The Real King Energy Men Are Missing
29:30 Final Words for the Men Playing Small
Apply here https://www.coreyboutwell.net/speaksoon
Join Our Community: https://www.skool.com/setthestandard/about
FREE Mindset Webinar: https://www.coreyboutwell.com/dydp
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It was crazy. I found your content when I was going through a breakup and because, like I study a lot of nice guy stuff, like I've interviewed Robert Glover and blah, blah, blah and help a lot of men with it, it's really interesting having this, like you know, awareness of what's going on, like as a coach, but then, like, going behind the scenes, you're like, oh, this is me, this is a trigger, this is my trauma response, this is my pattern, this is my attachment, this is my avoidance, like, in the meantime, going through it all, this is my grief, this is this. But then I was like I was watching your content and I was like I was like, oh, but this is making me feel it. I was like this, like I'm feeling everything right now, and I was just like binging. Just everyone was like give me more, I just want to feel more. I was like look at your content.
Speaker 2:I thought it was so good yeah, that's really what it's meant to do. Like a lot of people, a lot of people that do what. What we do with, uh, you know, coaching and and the self-improvement stuff. Most of the content is geared towards like lessons, right, and and kind of tips and tricks and here's the three ways and all that kind of and all that stuff's good, like I'll do that stuff too. But, um, I think what I realized really early on in in creating content was that if I can relate with people's pain, is is really powerful.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it really creates like an emotional experience. Yeah, yeah, let's, um, let's get into it, because one of the rules that I liked, that you made that blue mark like wowed me was the one where you're like, you know, being good to others and treating them well is going to make them treat you well, and it's like there's such a lie. Can you talk to me more about that?
Speaker 2:sure, yeah, yeah, it's a false belief that a lot of my guys have when I meet them in one that I have myself right this idea that because I'm a good person and I'm being nice to them and I'm treating them well, like there's. You know, dr Robert Glover will call these covert contracts right when it's. Basically, if I do this, I get that right. So if I'm nice to them, they'll be nice to me, and unfortunately that's just not how the world works. It's just not the case.
Speaker 2:People are not black and white like that. It's very gray and there's so many other factors that come into play in the dynamics of a relationship that so often get overlooked. And I think with the nice guys they often do have like very black and white thinking it's just this, or it's that, it's good or it's bad, I'm good or I'm bad. And like what you're talking about with the, the kind of golden rule fallacy, it really sets them up for failure because they never come to the conclusion that I had to be told, uh, by one of my first mentors where he's like no, no, no, people treat you how you teach them to treat you, how you allow them to treat you, so every time they say something that is maybe disrespectful or they do something that is, um, you know, hurting you and you are nice about it. You're teaching them that you're you're okay with that, that that behavior or that way of communicating with you it's acceptable and you have no problems with it. So they will continue doing that. Does that make sense?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it makes sense. So what do you do about that? Like, how do you get people to treat you in a way that you know is with with with either respect or how just you'd even like to be treated?
Speaker 2:Yeah, great question. So, um, oftentimes it, it, it it's a bit of a projection what, what my nice guys will do, because they see, setting a boundary with those people, right, like if, if someone were to say something to me, uh, that I don't agree with, like someone spoke something over my life that I'm just like that's not true about me at all and that's not where my future is heading, or whatever, I would have to shut that down and like correct them or let them know that like that that's not OK and that's entering into confrontation, right, which you know is a challenge. It's a challenge for us. We don't like that. Why don't we like that? Because we don't like being confronted ourselves very uncomfortable because of our internal view of confrontation and how we handle it when others are upset with us. That's our whole thing.
Speaker 2:Like the reason we behave that we, the way we behave, is because we want them to be nice to us, because we don't want that confrontation. That's what we desire, and because we desire that, we think that it's good to do that. It's it's good to not have boundaries. It's good to always be nice. It's good to do that. It's good to not have boundaries. It's good to always be nice. It's good to behave in this way. It's best for me and them. But how often is doing what makes you feel good beneficial for your life?
Speaker 1:That's so true.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's just another drug. It's just's just another drug. It's just like people pleasing. It's just like porn. It's just like, you know, weed and and alcohol and distractions all these other things that we run to to make us feel good. Yeah, and the the core I? I see one of the core wounds for the nice guys is I am not good enough. I don't't think I'm good enough, so I need you to make me feel better about me, or I need you to give me something that will make me feel better about me, yeah, and it turns into a need.
Speaker 1:It was interesting because I was for me. I've noticed myself in dating be someone who over shares more quickly, and what I was trying to put into a concept around this because I'm like writing a bit of a book or an article around it. I'm not sure, I'm just like writing some concepts on it. The concept I come up with was her pussy, your heart, meaning. If you talk to a woman and the first thing she does is just like open to legs and says, oh, come meet me here. As a guy you're going to be like, oh, like no way right, like it was immediately like what's, what's, what's wrong with her. But for a guy it's the same thing. If we have this vulnerability or, you know, we have these feelings or these emotions, we just put them all out on the table straight away. Here's this feeling, here's me. This is where I'm at. Let me do everything for you. Blah, blah, blah.
Speaker 2:She goes it's definitely the feeling they get yeah.
Speaker 1:What are your thoughts on that?
Speaker 2:yeah, it's an interesting concept, but it's a provocative way to put it too. Probably some attention. It's a great title for a book it's just a concept.
Speaker 1:Also, how can I get some uh, create a little bit of chaos in this that people go oh, what was going on here?
Speaker 2:yeah, I think, um, what I mean? What kind of oversharing do you see? Like, what does that mean to you? Like, what kind of mistakes have you made in the past to where you see her feel that way, or even like other guys?
Speaker 1:you've seen what's a good example of that so like coaching your woman instead of like asking your question. Asking questions is like you know anytime that there is any sort of conflict. It's like, instead of like thinking clearly and getting you know aware of like your heart and your intentions and seeing where you're at, you just want to have the conversation and tell everything like immediately and just like get it off your chest. It's like emotional dumping.
Speaker 2:So just like vomiting, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So like just releasing everything you got right there.
Speaker 1:This is how I'm feeling I'm freaking out, I'm sad, I'm whatever it can be in micro moments too, so like it doesn't have to be um, like I've noticed for me specifically, sometimes like all right, we need to have a conversation to get all this off my chest, blah, blah. But as a nice guy, like even um for a covered nice guy could be like small, small things. I'm like, oh, I'm feeling a little bit uncomfortable in this tension right now because I have this uncertainty. You know, does she actually like me? Is she like okay with me right now? Is she grumpy at me, is she angry at me? And instead of just, you know, like either letting her be or just sitting in some of the tension, immediately it's like, oh, I'm trying to fix it, I want to fix this, this straight away. And she's like what the hell? Like, where did this even like come from? You know what I mean? And you're like, oh, oops, said the wrong thing yeah, yeah, of course.
Speaker 2:So there's. There's a a few different concepts I have for this. Number one is uh, it's, it's. If we talk about emotions, right, what would you say are good and bad emotions like, what are good emotions? Happy, joy, cheer, right, what? What calmness, peace, peace, yeah. What are good emotions? Happy, joy, cheer, right, what calmness, peace, peace, yeah. What are bad emotions?
Speaker 1:well, it's hard for me to answer this because I don't think any emotions are bad, but we could say I was like negative emotions would be rage, anger, grief.
Speaker 2:There you go, yeah right, so that whole concept right, and you get it because you've been working on this and starting to understand. But most guys like when, when we start talking about this, right, I'm like what are good and bad emotions? And then they lay it out, just like we did, right there, and go who taught you that? Because there's no such thing, they're just emotions, that's all. This is Right and, unlike beliefs, you can't fight your emotions. They just are. Because if you suppress your emotions, suppression leads to expression.
Speaker 2:That's where these dumps come from. Right, you're suppressing all of these emotions. You're not releasing them in healthy ways. You don't have other men or or groups to go to and talk about this stuff and and unleash this stuff. So then you come to your woman and you just like this, this is everything that's going on and part of what you're talking about.
Speaker 2:Like you're feeling the tenseness, the uncomfortableness with her. It's because you at some point were shamed for having those emotions right, for being upset ever, for being mad, for being sad. You built a shame around those and because you have learned that suppressing those is what, like, kept you safe and secure growing up in your home, or that's the strategy that worked for you. That's what you taught, made you good, made you a good kid that never caused any problems or anything like that. That goes into your worldview, into adulthood, is like.
Speaker 2:This is what I continue to do, because you are uncomfortable with your own emotions in that way. We're going to project that onto her anytime. This is why we love making people happy, which the key word in there make. You're manipulating people. Okay, that's what we're doing. I know we don't think that we are, but that's what we're doing. And when you sense her being upset, when you sense her being sad or angry or mad, immediately we go into one of our controls like fight, flight, freeze, fawn and for us, we're good at fawning, like we've been practicing that for a very long time now. So we're going to fix it. We're going to make her happy. We're going to do whatever we can to get her out of this state, not because it's best for her, but because it'll make us more comfortable.
Speaker 1:And what do you? What do you mean by fawning as well?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so that that that would be the, the people pleasing, that would be going into the state of like well, well, what, what can I do? What? It's the question in your head, it'll immediately arise and you might even say like what can I do? What?
Speaker 1:it's the question in your head, it'll immediately arise you might even say, like, what can I do to make you happy? Yeah, that makes sense. You had, um, a real talking about this and I thought it was interesting around women not wanting their men, essentially on this emotional dumping thing, to tell them all their emotions because, you know, as a guy I was like it was like a problem. They, oh, babe, there's this problem that we're in and I feel so bad and like anxious about it and I'm freaking out and blah, blah, blah.
Speaker 1:Then, in the example of your rule you talked about, okay, instead, go talk to your friends, go talk to your men's group, figure it out, process your emotions with them, come up with some solutions and some logistical ideas in order to shift your behaviors in the future, which will work. And then, when you come to your woman you mentioned, you're like, hey, today I was super stressed out, I had these things happen to me and just letting you know it's in my body. But I've talked to the guys, I figured this thing out, I've already created a plan, you know, to get through X, y, z. Why is that so important for men and why? Why is it better to do that rather than to lean on their woman with all their emotions?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah. So the framework that I'll teach the guys is just like you said come to the men Like this is why men need men more than ever right now, like we have. We have to have good, solid guys in our corner um to talk about these things, because it isn't appropriate to have those conversations with her. Think about I mean just think about this, like I'm sure you would probably be in agreement, like we should be leading the relationship, like we should be leading the relationship right. So in a way, this is a weird way to say it, but in a way, just just think of it as as a relationship. Just think, like boss, employee, to make it simple, cause everybody kind of understands that relationship If your boss came to you and was like dude, corey, we messed up man, this, we messed up, this is bad.
Speaker 2:I don't know what we're going to do. I don't know if the company's even going to make it Like I think we're gonna have to fire a lot of people Like I. I'm. I'm losing my mind trying to figure this out. I don't know what to do and I was just hoping, like you, you could help me figure something out here. Just hoping, like you, you could help me figure something out here. Do you feel confident about that job anymore? No, no, your immediate thought is you're probably thinking I might need to go find a different job.
Speaker 2:So just apply that to the relationship, right, because one of the one of one of the core needs that that I believe women have in the relationship is a safety and security aspect. So, like the, we've got the safety and security aspect and there's also this the emotions, the reason, the reason that when we go into that state of fawning and we go into straight into solution seeking with her, the reason that does not work and that always backfires and leads into arguments. Think about this Whenever, whenever, you have gotten unsolicited advice from someone, whenever you have gotten unsolicited advice from someone, right, they're telling you how you should be running your business, or how you should be making your content, or how you should, and you never asked. By the way, how does that come across to you?
Speaker 1:It makes me think that they're trying to get across that they're better than me.
Speaker 2:Correct. It feels like a judgment. Right, that's how they feel when we go straight to solution seeking and solving their problems. They're it's unsolicited advice and their immediate thought is he thinks I can't handle this myself. He thinks I'm not smart enough to fix my own problems. It comes across as a judgment. And what is what happens? That they lose the acceptance piece, like we're no longer accepting them for who they are yeah, and that makes it so from yeah, that makes sense for me is to.
Speaker 1:It puts them in a seat where they're like well, I'm like I, I'm gonna lean more towards rejection and I'm gonna reject you because if I'm not accepted, well then and I'm not feeling that from you then I'm not gonna accept you back. Just from like a nervous right.
Speaker 2:And how do you, how do you behave when you, when you feel like someone's judging you?
Speaker 1:yeah, I reject them. Someone's judging me. I'm like why are you judging me? You know what I mean? I get like, you know, I'll push back you'll push back exactly.
Speaker 2:So there's the yeah. That's why it's gonna end in an argument every time every time? Why didn't anyone tell us this man, I don't know, man, that's why we're here talking about it now. But listen, the moment that I discovered that piece that we just talked about right there, it changed my marriage, change it totally radically changed my relationship, because I had this realization that it's. I don't have to do anything. Yeah, all right.
Speaker 1:You just literally. I've come to that realization quite a few times myself. I'm like the best thing that I've ever learned in relationships is to shut up, and that's about it.
Speaker 2:Well, it's just, you can do less, do less and get better results. Who doesn't like that?
Speaker 1:It's more efficient.
Speaker 2:It's way more efficient. And guess what? All of these things that you're trying to do to solve the problem or fill her needs, or like helper that she hasn't specifically asked for, you're probably doing things that aren't moving the needle anyways, and guess where that takes you. That takes the like doing all these things that they're not directly asking for. Trying to guess what she needs and she wants. You're on overdrive, like working so hard, and it always leads to this place of you know it doesn't work, of course, because you can't read her mind. You're not guessing correctly as far as, like, what her needs and wants are. I mean, it always leads to this conversation or this thought no matter how hard I work, no matter what I do, no matter what we accomplish, it's never good enough for you. I can never make you happy.
Speaker 1:And as we don't even realize that we're just setting that up for ourselves the whole time we did that exactly.
Speaker 2:We did that. And then the the other piece, coming back to kind of the vulnerability aspect of it that a lot of people talk about, like why you shouldn't be vulnerable with your woman in that way, right With the framework, with the, you know, boss, employee type relationship. If we come back to there now with that, what ends up happening is, as soon as you like, have that dump, like like for me, as soon as I dump all of that stuff onto her, now she's, we're asking her to solve the problem to take responsibility for your own emotions now she's got the weight of our problems on her and when, when that happens, where they lose?
Speaker 2:they lose the safety and security aspect, because now they've got to create it for themselves. Because you can't create it for yourself, so how could you create it for yourself? So how could?
Speaker 1:you create it for her, well, and then she has to take care of her own and yours. So it's like, is it? There's a double hit, double.
Speaker 2:And that's full on. And that's full on masculine energy mindset, Like if you've got to provide the safety and security for your relationship. You're in masculine energy mode.
Speaker 1:Is that what you think? You know it's more, almost more important for men when they, if they want to, if their intention is to be a good partner, a good husband, someone who can get a good woman, and that's what they want. It's like, well, as well, as you know, it's like it's almost like what's more important having, let's say, a stable job and working on your emotions so that you can handle that, or stressing the fuck out and trying to make as much money as possible and not being able to handle your emotions as much to each their own.
Speaker 2:I guess I, I think, I think the, the. What I always say is like the the proof is in the pudding man. Time always tells like you watch these people that are doing it one way and you think they've got everything that you want. Just give it 10 years. It's hard to see that now, cause you're like, yeah, but it looks like they're having so much fun and they're doing everything that I always wanted to do. I'm like I don't know. I don't know. I don't know that. I don't know that person in real life. So I don't know. I don't know that person in real life. I don't know what that actually looks like behind closed doors. I know what my results look like. I know what the strategies I'm teaching produces.
Speaker 1:Right, which one would you prefer to chase?
Speaker 2:As far as like the, all the money and no emotional stability.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's like all the money, less emotional stability, or less money and a lot of emotional stability I mean, you need my.
Speaker 2:It depends what less money means. You know, um, it depends because I've got goals, like it's a funny question. I feel like it has to be more tangible.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah I mean, what's the?
Speaker 2:measuring stick here. What's what's really emotionally unstable, like I don't know.
Speaker 1:I don't want to say okay, let's say someone who has he emotionally unstable, is someone who, let's say, would put that pressure on their woman in regards to, you know, emotional responsibility. And then someone who has less money has, let's say, enough like just not completely struggling but not excelling.
Speaker 2:Sure, I would much rather have the emotional stability, because it affects everything else and, honestly, I think the thing that people don't realize is, like these things that we're talking about, the emotional stability, like the perseverance, like this, this self-awareness and conquering yourself, that's what leads to getting more money, by the way, like it follows that it's not one, like you don't have to have one, or then like it that that's how you get more money yeah, I, I couldn't agree anymore.
Speaker 1:I just wanted to see like kind of your perspective in that situation if it was like an either, or because I find, like a lot of men get into that situation where, like a lot of, like a lot of guys that I see will be hustling and grinding and try to do spend all of their time making money, stressing out, you know, getting out of shape and then partying and then you know, um, going leaning into drugs, alcohols and prostitution and you know, and everything else. Like it's very common for me to to meet men where that's happening and they kind of come into my sphere and they're like dude, help me, the fuck out. Like you know, I can't, I can't stop this because they are emotionally unstable and you know the switch of being like well, the desire is to become as emotionally stable as possible as as your business grows, and I wanted to help change their as possible as as your business grows, and I wanted to help change their, you know their, their perspective perception on that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think. Um, I think the reality is, when you see someone like that is they've built a life around them that isn't for them. That's why they need more money and more girls and more booze and more distractions to stop them from thinking more about how they hate their life.
Speaker 1:It's true. It reminds me of this quote by Dostoevsky what is hell I maintain that it is the suffering of being unable to love.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you see, a lot of people envy those people that have all the money, but then they're like going through divorces and they're going through addiction and they're in and out of rehab and and and whatnot, but it's still idolized. It's so idolized and. And even people that like earn their money in ways that aren't like really ethical or you know, they kind of have to step on people to to get it or or whatever it's like people envy them, like I don't envy that man.
Speaker 2:You know the internal turmoil that you must have to like earn your living that way. I don't want anything to do with that. It's not like my internal state is not worth any of the external things you can provide there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, one of my friends, slash, is kind of a mentor here. I'm staying in Austin at the moment. He had something very similar. He went and made a lot of money and now he's just like dude, I wish he's like all entrepreneurs. He's like I don't care what you say, every entrepreneur that I've met, their entrepreneurship is a symptom of trauma. He's like I don't care what you say, every entrepreneur that I've met, their entrepreneurship is a symptom of trauma. He's like change my mind. I'm like okay, bro, it makes sense. He's like yeah, prove me one that hasn't got it. I was like yeah, I get it.
Speaker 1:Man, it makes sense yeah, to be fair, I think you say pretty much everything everyone does in adult life is some type of symptom of of tracing back symptom of some sort of panning I've been getting into like um understanding kinks and desires, like sexual desires, but how they also show up into your personality and it's like how you run business and how you um have run friendships and you know how you employ people or have very similar traits to um like your kink types in terms of desires and how you want to do something. Is that that's been blowing my mind recently.
Speaker 2:I'm like, wow, this is like extremely accurate in regards to desires yeah, desires, wants and desires are a really tricky thing for a lot of guys. A lot of guys like if you, if you ask a guy as soon as you meet them, like you start getting into things or you're working with them, like that's one of the most difficult questions to answer.
Speaker 1:What do I want? Well, what do I desire?
Speaker 2:Yeah, what do you want, man? Especially for nice guys? Cause, what do nice guys want? We want everything that we want and desire has always revolved around other people. Yeah, I want, I want, I want. I want them to be taken care of, I want them to be happy, I want them to succeed. Okay, how about something that just has to do with you, though?
Speaker 1:I have. I have you bring this up. I've had coaching calls and clients with people where this, this theme has gone on for hours and hours and weeks and months of still this lack of being able to make a decision, like this decision ability out of uncertainty for themselves, is like. I literally watch people completely disassociate when they ask that question Like for me and that working on trying to receive for me. I'm like, how's that going to show up in business? How's it going to show up in your relationship?
Speaker 1:I got tested so hard in a relationship for my ability to receive and I didn't know it was bad. My partner was traveling, going to travel to america, um, to go to like coachella and have this, um, like amazing experience. And she spent like7,000 on me for my birthday and like did a surprise when my friends were there and some people one of my friends who lived in like Perth came around and, like it was overwhelming, bought me a sauna. It was like a whole day spa package and stuff. And this is a day before my retreat, so I was running a retreat that time and I remember she was running around and doing all this.
Speaker 1:I completely disassociated. I was like trying to to get on back and on board and I remember her getting so angry at me, like so angry at me because I couldn't do anything, I couldn't say anything. I was like, oh, this is nice, and I'm like I need this, need. This is gonna need to take a day or two for it to to sink in for me, like I can't handle this, and that it stretched my capacity to be able to receive because I had to like reflect on it after. But it was one of the most difficult things I've ever had to do in remaining present.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's very difficult for us to receive, because we're the givers we give. We're not allowed to receive. That's not what. That's not what we do. That's selfish, corey. Why are you being so selfish? It's probably all that we could like at our core. That's what we think, because we see receiving as taking. We truly do. We see it as taking from others and being selfish, and we're not allowed to do that and being selfish and we were not allowed to do that.
Speaker 1:Is that why you think that we always keep trying harder to like get a woman's attention or to get them to like us? And when we're like starting to date, like I want to get a woman and I'll change my approach. You know, do more, try harder to to get them to try to like us, rather than understanding like oh, she's just not interested. I'm going to let this go.
Speaker 2:You think that ties back to the taking, like the inability to receive.
Speaker 1:Yeah, maybe.
Speaker 2:I don't see it. How? So what do you think? What do you see there? Maybe I'm probably just missing it.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So it's like I think that you know.
Speaker 1:If it's not, you know the quote that you said if it's not a hell yes, it's a hell no.
Speaker 1:If and then you change your approach and like manipulate to try to get like a woman's attention or try to get them to like you, it's like I feel this thing of like you find it, you know, really hard to receive, and I feel like when you find something hard to receive, it's like you still want to receive in another way. So it's sort of like puts pressure on other areas, and how you want to receive is just how you think receiving is is just attention, so that's how you get love. So if you can't receive love normally, it's like okay, well, if I can't receive love in a way where it's actually given to me nicely, it's going to put pressure on other areas of where I think love is. So now, if I'm trying to receive this way and I'm and I'm blocking it off, then I this is an assumption that I have then I'm going to want it more from the areas that I do get it, because I can't receive it that way.
Speaker 2:You are. You are onto something here, yeah, yeah. So so what? It is All right.
Speaker 2:So if, if we make it so, we don't want anything from other people, right, we suppress our wants, our needs, our desires for other people, can you agree? We all have wants and needs, for sure, all right, so we agree on that. So we all have wants and needs. But, nice guys, we take those wants and needs and we suppress them because we built some type of shame around them, like we're not allowed to have them. That's selfish, whatever it is. So we suppress them, but it doesn't mean that we don't have them.
Speaker 2:So if you have all of these wants and needs that are never getting filled, that directly makes you a needy person. So, just like you're saying, because we can't receive, because we can't, because we can't directly ask for for for our wants and needs, and because we can't, because we can't directly ask for for for our wants and needs and because we can't directly receive them, um, we don't allow other people to to, to give to us directly in that way. We do it in weird ways, like with the, with the contracts and with the attention seeking and with this, this being needy, and our relationships especially Like we don't even think we're doing it, but it's so obvious to everyone else, how could you not be needy?
Speaker 1:Yeah, especially when it's not obvious to us. Do you find it's difficult to convince men of that as well? Like for me, I was so resistant to even thinking that I was a nice guy or to think that I would be doing some sort of manipulation or to think that, you know, there's actually something wrong with me. I'm like no, it's like, this isn't a thing. And then it kind of punched me in the face.
Speaker 2:Learning the hard way in relationships of like oh, a bunch of this is me yeah, because in our minds, oh, we're just a really good guy, like I'm the best boyfriend you could ever have. Yeah, isn't that how you? That's how we think she would be lucky to have me. Yeah, that's legitimately what goes through our heads. In a way. We think so highly of our virtues.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Look at what I'm doing, look at how I am.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. So, yes, it's impossible. I believe it's impossible for us to see it until you experience the weight of the pain that results from the behavior. You just can't see it, because if you're not getting that pain, I'm a very, very big believer that your ability to change is directly related with the amount of pain you're experiencing.
Speaker 1:What do you mean by that?
Speaker 2:Like they are hand in hand. The more pain you're experiencing, the more like potential for change that you have.
Speaker 1:Interesting. What about men, or people even in general, who like avoid or disassociate from the pain?
Speaker 2:they never get they just never get it they never get it because they never, they never allow themselves to experience that will cause other problems. That will also be painful, though you can't just numb yourself, I mean you can kind of, but like it going to be destructive behaviors. If you're dissociating and numbing through, like whatever it is like that's going to leak out into the rest of your life, right, you see it. So there's no way to avoid that pain. It's coming and then, once it finally all falls apart around you, then you finally look in the mirror and say I, I think I might be the problem. Wow, what?
Speaker 1:what for you in regards to like all of this work, and the work that you do in the kings community is like your favorite my favorite yeah, that you're just when you just like we get a click with someone or something like a topic that you're really liking talking about currently at the moment, like what for you just like gets you going yeah, that's a good question.
Speaker 2:I really I I love when guys start to pursue their own dreams, like it's one thing to get them out of these behaviors and, like you know, kind of get them into a different mindset and stop being victims and this is happening for you and like all the stuff right, all of these things.
Speaker 2:But once they have like all of those tools in place and they're practicing and they're growing those skillsets, nothing makes me happier than seeing someone like have a spark of of a dream again and start to pursue it normally, entrepreneurially, like, um, I want guys to pursue their dreams at the end of the day, because I think that's at the end of the day, like oftentimes everyone is missing purpose, like they're lacking purpose. So many men are lacking purpose because they don't have a dream, they don't have a vision, they don't have some, even if it's in your career, that's fine too. But like something that you're really feeling called to do, something that you know you're like making an impact on other people as as well. Like something that for me, like where I'm, I'm serving a higher power. Like I think if you don't have that, everything else is kind of window dressing, like everything else is just kind of just looks nice but it doesn't really.
Speaker 1:It doesn't really have like the fuel to get you to where you really want to be, because that's where everyone really wants to be doing, oh yeah yeah, just chasing their dreams at your highest potential, I feel like is what every man wants just to be in their greatest shape, greatest mental, mental, physical, emotional and spiritual position and chasing their dreams at their highest capacity. But in there it's very interesting. I love that you mentioned purpose, like a big, big question to answer, but like why do you feel that men don't like? Commonly, they either are losing their purpose or don't have as much purpose like in the modern world.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they're being taught not to pursue it. I don't know, like it's hard to say, because nowadays men are kind of being shamed for being men, essentially for being masculine. There's a lot of that that's going on. There's so much confusion in today's society about what they should be doing, what they shouldn't be doing, how to talk to women, how not to talk to women, how to date, how not to date, how to be married, how to be in a relationship, like what careers are good and what are evil. And you know, should I make more money or is making more money evil and bad? Like there's no really set standards anymore and maybe there never were, there definitely aren't now.
Speaker 2:Like it's crazy confusing as a guy and, um, a lot of the nice guys because of our nature, like I built my worldview, um around like what my, what my mom wanted me to be and what my, uh, like friends who were girls, like wish men would be, like just what they would say and how they would react right.
Speaker 2:Like I kind of built a world view around the feedback that I got from them as far as, like what a man should be. What was that for you? Yeah, how should I put it? Essentially, essentially a common theme that I saw was like pointing out the the assholes, right, like that's something that really sticks with me, like them pointing out the asshole guys in their lives, whether it was oftentimes for my friends that were girls, the guys that they were dating, right, for my mom it was probably like her ex husband or like men in power that were just like ruining everything and the patriarchy and all that stuff, right, um, and because of that, I looked at those guys who were assholes, um, and any traits that they had I didn't want to have.
Speaker 1:And what were those traits I'm so bought into this?
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, let's think about it. What are the traits of an asshole? It's probably very assertive, very direct, doesn't really care what people think about them, right? Oftentimes, these guys are making decisions that people don't like, especially if they're in leadership roles. A lot of times they are in leadership roles because they're assertive, they're direct, they're going after things, they're pushing the bar right. They're doing stuff like that. So, basically, all of those um, not necessarily healthy or unhealthy, but like those, are traits and skills that need to be developed.
Speaker 2:As a man Like those are very important things. The ability to lead, which is, you know, making decision, inspiring people. There's a lot that goes into that. But for me to look at leaders and say, well, I don't want to be like that guy because he's an asshole, right? So I take all of these good things that they might be doing and I lump them into this category and say don't be like that. So I never made decisions for myself, I never took risks, I never could be direct in my communication with people, I can never assert myself. I like all of those things that are really important things to do, and although those guys may have taken them too far or something, maybe they weren't necessarily healthy, but there were still traits that needed to be developed. So I always look at it this way, like you look at some of the most successful men like in our generation. You look at like Michael Jordan and Tom Brady and Peyton Manning and you know, jeff Bezos and Elon Musk and all of these guys Nobody in society calls those guys nice guys.
Speaker 1:Agree, like that's not, but they get called an asshole all the time.
Speaker 2:Quite often, quite often. But every single man would love to get the type of results that those guys have gotten in their life. Right, we all, we would all want that type of success that they've achieved. So that means that there is. There are things that they are doing that are correct, that are leading to the results that we want to have in our own lives, and there are also things that we are doing not so much things that we're doing necessarily normally, things that we aspire. Where I find, if we're talking like assholes and nice guys, assholes execute properly. They do all the right things. Where they the mistake that they make is they do it without good intentions, like they'll actually do it to harm other people and to better themselves only. Right, nice guys do everything wrong with the purest of intentions, biggest hearts. All they want is for like like they just want everyone else to be happy and to be better and live wonderful lives. Right, they have the best hearts and purest of intentions. Just all of their behaviors and skills are like there's, there's like nothing there.
Speaker 1:It makes it? Do you think that that's why men get so sensitive when it comes to like breakups? Because, speaking for me personally, the lowest I've ever been I've had, like some close friends pass away. There's been like some you know, super traumatic stuff happened to me. That hasn't been in relationships, but it doesn't come close to what I've felt, that I've experienced in breakups, and with a lot of other nice guys as well.
Speaker 2:I'd love to hear your thoughts on that yeah, I think it's tied to kind of what what I mentioned a while back on here. Um, our value comes from what they think of us. Right, if they're up, if, if she's upset with me, that means I did something wrong or I'm bad, right, which you can trace that all the way back to. You know, probably some type of childhood wound there. And when they so, a couple of things happen. Number one is we. We correlate our value as a person, as a man, by the external validation that they give us. Right. That's why so often like we're so attracted, we, we just want we oftentimes we'll see them as almost like trophies, like nice guys won't admit it, but they see it as kind of like a trophy, like look at this, I did this, this makes me good, this makes me better than you yeah, you're like, yeah, look at me.
Speaker 1:It's like, look at this thing that I did. Look at it. Confirm my own beliefs about myself, that I'm good.
Speaker 2:Exactly, exactly. And then the other piece of it is because we don't have wants and desires of our own, we pour everything into, like making them happy and giving to them and doing all this stuff. We make the mistake of building our life around them so when they leave, we no longer have a life and we have no worth because we lost all of that external validation so what do we do about this?
Speaker 1:because I know like we feel fear, like I know you feel fear, and a lot of it trans, transmutes like um, one of the things that tests my fear is like sales. Like sales is a thing of mine that you know. If I'm not doing them for a hot minute, I kind of lose. I'm like, oh, like fear comes back. Same thing with difficult conversations in relationship Fear comes back. So I was like, okay, I feel these fearful things, so instead I'll just be as nice as possible. So I was like, okay, I feel these fearful things, so instead, I'll just be as nice as possible.
Speaker 2:So what do we do about this? Yeah, you got to develop new strategies, that's true, Like you have to. So I mean we work so much on. First, you got to convince them that what they're doing is not good for other people.
Speaker 1:That's the hard part. Yeah, that's the hard part.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's the hard part you have to convince, because the last thing they want to do is hurt other people.
Speaker 2:So we'll spend so much time just showing them, like, the results of these behaviors and what it leads to and like kind of logically defeat those beliefs that the way I'm operating is the best for them.
Speaker 2:It may not be the best for me, but it's the best for them, right, and they're okay if it's not the best for me, because I'm fine, sacrificing my entire life for them, that's totally cool, yeah, so, so we got to get in there and and help them see that like get that very clear.
Speaker 2:And then we got to show them the strategies that do work and the skill sets that they do need to develop, right, like making decisions and taking risks, which making decisions is, making any decision is a risk a lot of times, right? So we have to like I'm a big fan of just like exposure therapy, like these are all skill, like this is a skill issue. This isn't like some kind of dark secret thing buried inside of your psyche that needs to be, I don't know, like there's, there's value to all that stuff, just for men. I think it's way more simple to look at and say this is a skill you need to develop and the reason you're so bad at is because you've never practiced it. You're in good shape like you. Were you an athlete like you play, play sports growing up like I compete in bodybuilding shows.
Speaker 1:I got a pro card in 2019 and compete naturally against guys on test.
Speaker 2:Beat them, let's go beautiful, my wife, she, my wife's actually a figure competitor, so we're we're in that industry, going to the arnold every year and all this stuff, man oh, it's so fun man yeah, I love that. But um, fun man, yeah, I love that. But um, that was strength. Strength and bodybuilding, that's a skill, right, and when you started, how terrible were you. It was so bad man, so bad and I was just sore.
Speaker 1:All the time I was like why is my body in so much pain?
Speaker 2:right and you're not any bigger and you don't really know how to do the movements very well and your splits are probably all over the place and, like you, just you have no idea what you're doing. These are no different, like making decisions, being assertive, leading yourself, um, all all of these, having these difficult conversations, bringing awareness around, uh, your, your triggers, and not falling into those default settings of fawning or learning the thing like oh, I know that now it's done. No, that that's like you haven't even scratched the surface. It's like if I read a book about basketball and just thought, oh, I could probably go play now. I could probably be pretty good at this. I get it, it's just not how it works. It's like a muscle memory in itself, right Cause every, every time you get put into it's no different at all. It's like being on the field, um, because every time you get put into that position where she's upset, now it's, it's. It's that same situation, but it's a little different. Like she's, maybe she's upset about this or she it's at's. It's that same situation, but it's a little different. Like she's, maybe she's upset about this or she it's at a different level, or there's more people involved or whatever. It's a little different. Just like in sport, like the, the plays aren't it's always going to be a little different. There's so many intangibles involved.
Speaker 2:So if you're not like practicing these things, if you're not role playing, if you're not having conversations in the mirror like I tell guys hey, I just taught guys there. There's this really great strategy called nonviolent communication, by a guy named Marshall Rosenberg, where you kind of step through like how to handle conflict. I'm like hey, these things that we just that, we just went through this framework that I just showed you, don't use it for the first time when you're with her. Okay, yeah, cause you are going to mess it up. And then you are going to be discouraged and then you are going to look and say this doesn't really work, this isn't, I don't think I can do this. Like that didn't work at all. That blew up on my face Like, yeah, because you're terrible at it. Like go, go, practice it.
Speaker 1:Like why are you trying to throw it?
Speaker 2:away 10, 15 minutes in the mirror, in the shower, while you're driving, I don't know, like you have. So we have so much dead time. So many guys have so much dead time in their day. Like I hate when people give like those excuses I don't have enough time to to do it. Like there is time and it is. It is important, like we have to, we have to practice this stuff. It's just weird and uncomfortable. Like it's really uncomfortable to talk to yourself in the mirror and and do these things. I get that, but what else are you going to do? It's, it's the solution I couldn't agree more.
Speaker 1:One thing that I really value that I've like come into a lot more, um, I would say my early 30s has been like my desire for sexual connection, not the act of sex, but the connection of sex and I'm really liking the word recently, attunement, which is like you're attuning yourself, like which is, which is the skill of like.
Speaker 1:Okay, learning the skill, um, to your partner or to someone you're dating or whatever it is. And it's sort of like, okay, learning the skill to your partner or to someone you're dating or whatever it is, and it's sort of like you know if their nervous system is like an instrument, it's like how can you play it beautifully? And by learning the skill for me of attunement and knowing the sexual, energetic and intimacy, I'd say it's intimacy as well, intimacy like energetics that I desire and I crave. It's been able to turn into so much fun Like it hasn't just been I'll have this conversation or use these skills of like. I've had some of the best times in my life literally just talking to people without having sex, but just the, the energy that that we've been in by being able to use and practice the skills. I'm like man. I wish everyone could, could learn and actually be dedicated to practicing this so is it?
Speaker 2:what's the practice? Is it um kind of a playful thing of, like you know, opening and and I'm not familiar at all?
Speaker 1:yeah, so it's um, for how I would explain it is I like creating polarity and I kind of like pushing the edge to just test tension. But this is what I like. You know what I mean. This is very personal for me. It's like I like the edge, I like polarity and I like tension.
Speaker 1:So, in terms of whether it's like you, my flirting is like I'll be able to understand when I'm talking to like a woman I'll be talking and this happens in like my old relationship and I understood this. I'm like, oh, I know how she's being a bit of a brat right now and she needs me to come in with some, you know, sort of assertive type of energy, and sometimes I'll do it and it'll work. And then sometimes I do and it won't work. I go, oh well, other times I'll notice that, okay, what would work here in this situation is if I pull back and be a little bit cheeky with it, I've been like, well, you don't get this. You know what I mean in my language. I'm not saying that specifically, but whatever the the dynamic is, and then, noticing her, get a little bit cheeky about it and be like, oh, I see you doing that. I'm like, oh, my gosh. This is fun. Like I didn't realize I could do this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a funny thing. Like you mentioned, the tension, and I think it's a really like how do you teach someone how to flirt? How do you teach someone how to have fun? Essentially, you know, how do you teach someone to play. I think it's not something that's taught, it's like something that was forgotten, like it's in there.
Speaker 1:Mine is. It comes back to that part For me. I'd like to hear your point on this. But this is what I do, because I help people get clear on what they want. I feel like it's very hard to flirt, it's very hard to play and it's hard to have fun. This is just my perception if you don't know what you want. Because if you know what you want, then you can play in the tension before you get it, and then you either get it or you don't, and regardless, it's like well, it doesn't matter if I've got it or I haven't, but because we were playing, it was fun, right, yeah? So let's say just an example. It's like I really want to have sex with this person, I want to have sex with this. It's my partner. It's like, okay, I want to have sex. She knows I want to have sex. It's get it or not?
Speaker 2:right, doesn't matter, but the fact that we were playing was that's where the fun was. Yeah, I think a lot of people lose that. I think it's just getting creative. You know, um, for us, we talk a lot about, uh like emotional deposits, which essentially it's kind of like, if you've ever read uh like the way of the superior man, it's a chapter in there about praising your woman, right, like building her up.
Speaker 2:And this really goes back to what we were talking about, about the, the going straight to fixing things and solutions. Right, his big quote on there is, like you need to treat her as a water, as as a flower that needs watered, not a car that needs fixed, right? So we're we're trying to diagnose. I have never one time in working with men, um, have I ever seen someone that came in that had like this full diagnostic on his woman, like he knew all of her attachment styles and traumas, like he knew everything. Man, he was like I've been trying to figure out how to perfectly work with all the combinations of our things here, but it's just not working. I'm like, yeah, it's because that doesn't work. That's not how, like you're, if, if you think they need to change, you're the problem. You're trying to control them.
Speaker 2:The person that's trying to control the other person is the problem. They're going to do what they do. You can control yourself and whatever happens happens. If you can't accept that maybe they aren't the right person for you, you're the problem. Stop trying to change them. This is who they are. This is maybe who they're always going to be, and there's there's so much resistance from men on that because we believe, we truly believe we can fix anything. We have the solutions, we know what it is, but you can't control her, and that's. I see so many guys that come in. They're like in this separation period or going through divorce or the relationship is on the rocks and they're they're so invested on saving it through fixing her and they like see that they have to do stuff for for themselves, but they can't give up on the idea that it's savable, that it is fixable, either her or the relationship in general. And it's a really tough thing to watch, it's a delicate thing to walk.
Speaker 1:Well, you get into denial For me because I was that. I was in denial that I was like, quote unquote, a control freak. I was like, ah damn, it took until, like, her was sitting in a car and her, basically, I don't know if I can do this anymore. For me I had this conversation was I don't know if I can do this anymore, like you're so controlling, you do this, you do this, you do this, do this. And I specifically got feedback back and I went, oh, okay, I'll change all of that. And then she was angry that I was like, okay, I can see this, but it took you know, it took so many different moments to lead to a point like that that happened with the next partner that I was like, oh shit, I'm trying to control this yeah, it's a challenge.
Speaker 2:You can't see it when you're in it, but, um, it takes. It takes the breakup, like that's what it takes, like pretty much all the guys that watch my content or are coming into the community like they're in the midst of a breakup or they have gone through a bad breakup and they're trying to get back on their feet, like that's a majority of the guys is it more in your community?
Speaker 1:is it guys more breaking up with their partner or more they've gotten broken up with?
Speaker 2:they're getting broken up with most of the time. Yeah, that's standard, we don't. We have a really uh, we're really bad at ending things. If you haven't noticed, nice guys like we're not giving up man, yeah, we're not. We're because we're telling. We're telling that person, no, we don't like that, we're not very good at that and, like we talked about earlier, that's where we're getting all of our validation. Our whole world revolves around this person. So us voluntarily giving that up or walking away from that no chance.
Speaker 1:And I think, as a man, we validate ourselves too. It's like no, I can persevere, I can go through pain, I can get through this. Like you know, I'll do anything that it takes to make this happen, and that like validates ourself, like and that makes me manly, rather than sometimes the pain is actually deciding not to pursue.
Speaker 2:Especially my Christian guys. Oh, why is that? Well, what did Jesus do?
Speaker 1:Yeah, died for everyone.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he went through the most pain anyone could ever go through. He sacrificed everything, and they're like I need to do that too. It's like dude, he had a totally different purpose. You're not Jesus Okay. Yeah, this is a totally different purpose. You're not jesus okay. Yeah, this is two totally different things here.
Speaker 1:Yeah wow, I actually had. Um. I wanted to talk to you about this because I I do feel, like you know you talked about, like the, the, you could say almost like the feminist movement, but also like the kind of the anti-masculine movement that I'm kind of seeing a rise at the moment of um, a lot of women judge themselves for being masculine because they're like, oh shit, like you know, do men actually want a masculine? Like men don't want. They're starting to realize that men don't want masculine women as much. And then so they're like okay, do I need to even be more feminine, because this is the way that I, I was taught. And then for men, for us, it's like well, don't be too masculine, because you're going to piss people off. And if you piss people off, like you're going to have a tension on you and then you're going to get hurt and be in pain. And this happened. I had this message today. I wanted to talk to you about it.
Speaker 1:This girl messaged me. She me, she's like I'm interested in the masculine, feminine stuff you talked about. I used to think men and women were the same and didn't believe in the energies and all that for the longest time, and I was like why not? She's like I just didn't. It's a new concept for me. Can I get your opinion on something? And I was like what's? She has this, I wasn't sure if, like a marketer or something trying to pitch me.
Speaker 1:I was like sure she's like do I give off masculine energy? I've heard it from a lot of people that I do that. I was like, well, I don't know you. And she's like valid, is that a bad thing, though? Like she's needing, because I talk about this stuff. It's like she's needing this confirmation. And I was like, well, for men, if women gets gives off lots of masculine energy, if yes, then it can push us away for sure. And she was like why? I was like, well, if men found masculinity attractive, then we may as well just all be gay. And she was like well, how do I get more feminine? And I was like, oh, that's a big question, right? I didn't know what to say. Like back to that one, I sent her a book and I was like I think this one might help, but I just want to get your thoughts on that. Like whole concept of this confusion that's happening at the moment.
Speaker 2:Well, I think with everything there's a yin and a yang, you know. It's like light and darkness, good and evil, masculine, feminine. There's like a balance, and every relationship I've ever seen the balance is there and either side can play either role. I've watched it. I just have never really seen the woman being in the masculine like work very well or get the results that I'm looking for in my own relationship, if that makes sense. So I think the question, like, is it good or is it bad? It's not so much good or bad, it's just like what does it lead to the results that you want? Like what, what do you want? We go back to this question what do you want? Because maybe what you want you being a very masculine woman is going to get you everything that you, that you want, and that's fine, like it's your life, do whatever you want. But if it's not, if it's not getting you what you want, then yeah, maybe we need to look at like changing the strategy up here.
Speaker 2:Um, I think that that's that's the real answer. And it's hard, like how do I become more, more feminine? Yeah, I have no idea, cause I'm not that. So I tell you I don't work with the ladies at all on purpose for a couple of reasons. Number one I'm not one and I don't know what it's like to be one, so I can't really relate with that. So everything that I would teach you would be coming from a place of theory Right. And for me personally, like and also I don't want to develop close intimate relationships with other women. I don't think it's good for my relationship with my own woman. It's hard enough for me to maintain one and be successful at that, so I don't need to add more into the mix there. So that question I honestly would have no idea how to answer it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's fair enough, because I just wanted to bring some attention to like this confusion, especially for like kids these days, because, like one thing that like we see, that I see happen more so like online rather than offline. As I'm like man, I'm confused, like I'm like who cheats on each other more? Is it men or women? Because all the content that gets created, all the content that gets like created right, you've seen the tiktoks you repost them. Some of the shit you repost, I'm like no way women are saying this online. Are they doing it for attention? Are they being legit? Are they actually like proud that they're cheating? Like I?
Speaker 2:don't know. I don't know. I think everything online is pretty much fake in some way. Like there's no way around that. I truly 100 believe it. It's so poisonous to our culture and our minds. Um, the the which one cheats more. I bet it's about the same, especially nowadays. Like it's, it's about the same, unfortunately, there's just no guidance. There's no guidance Like nobody people always complain about.
Speaker 2:Like our school systems, like it doesn't teach us any of the important life skills. I'm like, yeah, you're right, it doesn't. It really doesn't. It just teaches us how to go get a job and then work for the rest of our lives and die. Like that's the whole purpose of it. Like, nowhere in there are we taught how to have a successful marriage. No one in there are we taught about like finances or how to start a business, or how to do your taxes or how to do a budget, like, and if it is, it's, it's so small and brief that it doesn't even register compared to the overwhelming amount of all the other stupid information that we have to learn.
Speaker 2:And so so what do we have to look for? We have our parents to look to, which I love my parents, man. My parents are, are, are awesome, like, but they did the best they could with what they had and they were not given much. You know, I grew up when my uncles will babysit me. I grew up like going to AA meetings with them. You know, like I, I, I there's story after story of just the chaos and, and you know, poverty and um addiction and all that in in my family. So it's like they made it as far as they could with what they have. But it wasn't like a great example for me necessarily, right, it wasn't the life that I really desired and I think most people relate with that, like most people um don't see the example in their parents that they really want to represent in their own marriage or in their their own life necessarily. So where are we going to learn it?
Speaker 1:Anime yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but I mean that that's why, like, that's why there's so much popularity in the space right now for, like you know, there's so many men's coaches and different books out there and authors and the whole red pill, you know, movement and that side of things that's so massive. Because there's such a lack of mentorship for men in general and young boys specifically, like it's just not there at all. I didn't have it, you probably didn't have it. Um, I would say probably 90, 95% of young boys do not have that father or father figure or healthy masculine example that they can go to and get that direct mentorship from so they can like kind of create this life that they really want.
Speaker 1:They're just everyone's winging it oh man, this is so true, like I think it took me. I was like my, very like, I started, I studied, started studying at uni when I was like 21 or 22. That's when I, like, started studying and learning about leadership and I learned how to study. And I wasn't until, like, I'd read a couple of books then. But I think it was like 25, 32 now it's like 25 when I read way of the superior man and I remember just reading it with my mouth open the whole time I was. I was like what the fuck?
Speaker 1:I remember part of me got angry that my dad hadn't and I knew a lot of americans, like people in amer. It's a bit different in Australia. Like you guys are pretty familiar with philosophy and I've met people here that actually read philosophy. It wasn't until I was watching Jordan Peterson's YouTube videos and he would say, oh, if you want to get really good at this skill, read Nietzsche. If you want to get really good at understanding human psyche in the shadow, read Dostoevsky. So I said, okay, I'll read it. So I just started reading all these old school books and I got angry, man, I was so angry that there was not one point. It took me until I was 25, 26 years old to start learning any of this. And I just went. I can't go. I can't go back.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's the benefit that the younger kids like we were kind of on the cusp of it because I'm 34. So right around same age, and like we really didn't have all this information that's out there right now when we were younger, when we were like 2425, that's really when it all started picking up. Like that's when podcasts started picking up. That's when you know all of that stuff's really started happening. Um, and I see now, like with all of the the younger creators that I'll connect with, like they're just so far ahead. There's, there's so far ahead Like a lot of people shit on the, the younger generation that's coming up, but there's, there's a group of them that was that that just like us, like wanted more and was ready to step out and take risks and do things, but they started doing it when they were 16, not when they were 25. Like they literally have a. They're a decade ahead of us it's crazy.
Speaker 1:I was talking to this podcast. He was like 22 years old and he's got this huge podcast. I remember him saying like someone asked him a question of like oh, how come you're not hiring someone you know who's better than you at doing the job? It seems like you're trying to hire someone who's not as good as you. He's like I don't know. Man, maybe I got like a superiority complex thing that I gotta go invest in to figure that out before I get into this. That's probably a good idea and I was like yeah, what a thought.
Speaker 2:Probably like 22, I was like what yeah words no 22 year old ever uttered before it was crazy.
Speaker 1:Well, um, I got one quote for you, and then, um, and I just like to hear your thoughts on this, and then, um, we'll wrap it up from here, but there's the quote. It's another dostafsky quote. I, I feel like a lot of them just kind of come into this conversation, but as pain and suffering are always inevitable for a large intelligence and a deep heart, yeah, I think it's, it is.
Speaker 2:It's, it's the yin, the yang. You know, you, you can't. Oftentimes we want to have this thing that so many other people have. We just don't want to do what it takes to get it. That's the problem with most people and you don't really understand. It's a bit unknown, it's different for everybody, like the cost. You have no idea what the cost is going to be, because the cost for him is different than it is for you. Everyone is unique in that way. So I can't tell you like this is what it's going to take for you to get that knowledge to you know, open up your heart for you to get this level of success or achieve that goal. I don't know what it's going to be for you. I can tell you what it was for me. I can tell you the things that it took. I can tell you the price that I paid. And I can also tell you, like if someone would have told me, like the price I had to pay for some of the things, I might not have done it at the time, like I wouldn't have been willing to pay that price. So it's probably better not to know actually.
Speaker 2:Um, but yeah, there's, it's spot on man. You know, there we, we talk about like I like to kind of paint things in a picture. Sometimes it's like a video game to guys, you know kind of gamifying your life. And the reality is like, with every new level, like every new level, there's a new devil. You want to make it to the next level, you want to like level up your character. The next thing, there's a, there's a boss fight that you need to have, like there's something that you need to do. You need to go through these trials and tribulations and experience some pain to receive that reward. That's on the other side of it. Most people either never start the journey, so they never get that reward, or they give up in the middle of it, so they never received that reward.
Speaker 1:Oh, it's so true. Um, I've got one. I've got one more question on this. I think this is actually really important. Was it the same for you with creating content as well?
Speaker 2:Say that again.
Speaker 1:Was that the same for you? Like every new level, there's a new devil, and like gamifying everything. Um, you know we're talking a lot about emotional intelligence stuff, but was that the same for you when it come to creating content? Because you arguably have the biggest page on masculinity on instagram like by a mile, you know what I mean. So like on positive men's masculinity. So it's like you know, was that whole journey for you in regards to you know, uh, creating content, and every know there's a new boss at every new level when it comes to content and business. Was that the same for you in that as well?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was definitely the same. Yeah, so with every level, there's a new devil. Like, how did that apply to creating content? Yeah, hmm, yeah, I would say what when it came to content like the, the first piece for me cause when I started making content was four years ago now and I had no idea about anything. I had deleted all social media from my phone for, at that point, the past 10 years. So I didn't have Tik TOK, I didn't have Instagram, I didn't have Snapchat, I didn't have.
Speaker 2:I wasn't on any of this because I saw it as a waste of time. Like, I was deep into um, like doing sales and personal development and sales leadership and development and all of that. Like that's where all my focus was, and social media was just like this distraction that I didn't need in my life. It was just something that I saw as a thing that people use to feed their egos. So the only reason I started making it was because of the pandemic. Like the pandemic came, I lost my job, had my second baby on the way and I needed to figure out something. Like I just I was looking for something and my wife was sending me TikToks every day and I would watch them through my web browser and I was like I'm just going to download this app so I can watch these easier. And boom, as soon as I start scrolling after the video she sent me, it knows exactly what I'm looking for. It started to send me like business and leadership and personal development and growth and all of that.
Speaker 2:And then I started seeing people talk about like how much money they're making, like through making content, and I'm like, oh, if this person can do it, I can certainly do it. Um, uh. So I I started, like I remember starting and for like a couple of weeks it was just like for probably the first month, there was nothing, like there was no progress. Terrible at it. Of course, like I hope no one ever sees those videos. Anyways, that account is gone now.
Speaker 2:But I came to the realization of like, oh, I need to hire somebody to teach me how to do this, because clearly I I'm just trying to copy what these people are doing, but that's it's not working. It's not actually working. So it was like hiring a coach. His name was, uh, kenton Martin, and luckily he had just started a business like teaching people how to grow Tik TOK channels, so like he had a channel that was like 300,000 or so at the time and he was making content about growing Tik TOK and talking about the algorithm and understanding how to do it.
Speaker 2:And I I, I bought a course from him. I bought another course. I spent like probably seven grand on credit cards with like money that I didn't have, you know. Um, and luckily for me at the time, like I bought his course and he was like all right, we're going to start in four weeks. I'm still like populating the course and I was like dude, I need to, I need to start now. Like I just went into, I just went into like dead here, I have no job. Like I need to start making money as soon as possible to like pay this back. So, like he, we started working basically one-on-one instead of like in the group, setting for four weeks leading up, and in those four weeks I gained my first hundred thousand followers.
Speaker 1:Whoa yeah. What were you posting at that time and what, what. What was like the struggle for you, Like what was the internal, the internal struggle for you as you were growing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the, the big struggle was really like caring what people were going to say. You know what I mean. I think that, with everybody starting to make content, it's like what if somebody sees this? Like what if my friends see it? What if my family sees it? What if my coworkers see it? What if my boss sees it? That was definitely the biggest fear, um, but since I didn't have a job at the time, it was like let's just, you know, let's let this rip, like who cares? They're not providing for my family?
Speaker 2:So, but the, I guess the content at the time, like I was kind of teaching people what I knew like self-development, sales, marketing, leadership, entrepreneurship, you know stuff that I was interested in, um and just making content all around that. And like selling a, uh, a course, like I was basically doing affiliate marketing for a course that taught people how to like build online brands. So that's where it began, um, and after, after that initial like bout of success, like I just you know, I kept going for a little while but then that account ended up uh, actually getting getting banned from TikTok. Like I completely lost the account and I didn't realize it. I kept trying to start new accounts and start over and go again and do the same thing that I was doing, but I was like making mistakes, like reposting old content that would flag that account and then get it shadow banned or banned, and like it just wasn't. I didn't know. So then I had to like reach out.
Speaker 2:I was listening to podcasts, I was searching for answers and I happened to hear a podcast and a guy was talking about how he lost his account and he started another one and now he has another hundred thousand followers or whatever it was. So I DM him on Instagram. He has no idea who I am. He answers my message and just gives me like a few quick bullet points, like he had a full-on conversation with me had not. If he had not talked to me, I wouldn't be here talking to you right now.
Speaker 2:Right, and there's like so many, there's so many links in the, in the chain of things like that you know, and I think that's part of what happens, you know, in life and when you're kind of chasing your purpose. But I was looking for the solution and like that there was, it finally came to me because I was searching so hard for it and it was right on the brink of me like ready being ready to give up, honestly, because it was probably like six weeks after I lost the account when I finally had that conversation with him six weeks of just nothing, no progress, nothing was working, every account was getting no views, every account was getting shut down, just over and over and over again, and because of that it put my mind space in a really dark place.
Speaker 1:Like where? What did it look like?
Speaker 2:Victim mentality.
Speaker 1:What were you saying like everything is against me.
Speaker 2:This isn't. This isn't going to work anymore. This was just a fluke. I'm not going to be able to do that again. I was. It was just pure luck that I built that first account. Like, no matter what I do, the app is against me, the people are against me, whatever Right. And because of that, I started like these algorithms. They know us so well. It started sending me dark, depressing content to relate with my pain. So that's all the content I'm seeing when I'm on there, like trying to research content ideas. That keeps bringing me back to this.
Speaker 2:I'm like man this is like really dark but like I relate with it. But it's not. But my whole purpose of like searching content and being on the for you page is like I am looking for, like that's how I research. I mean I'm looking for trends, I'm looking for topics, I'm looking for ideas to kind of emulate and use in my own content. So I have that conversation. I've been watching dark content for the past six weeks. I'm in a terrible mind space. I don't even know if this is going to work.
Speaker 2:But I start this next account. I make a few videos, just like I had always done, like you know, about marketing and entrepreneurship and whatever, just promoting the had always done, like you know, about marketing and entrepreneurship and whatever, just promoting the same stuff I've been promoting. And then, on the fourth video of that account, I decided to make a video that um was very different, a video like no other video I had ever made, called uh, signs of man is broken, which became like a series of I've probably made hundreds of those videos now and that one video got more videos than any other video I'd ever made up to that point. So it got about 8 million views. And what I learned from working with Kenton was when something goes viral, you need to duplicate whatever you just did or do something almost exactly like it over and over, like that's the type of video you're going to make now, basically.
Speaker 2:And that's what I did. And then every video I posted, I started posting, you know, at least three videos a day of the same type of thing over and over and over again. And it was like another million, another million, another 5 million, another million, another few hundred thousand, and then, within two to four weeks of starting that new account, I went from losing a hundred thousand followers on that old account and talking about business and entrepreneurship and self-development to now I have this new account talking about pain and like the mental health of of men, with half a million followers, and all of these guys in my inbox asking me for help, telling me that they relate with what I'm going like, they relate with the videos but one thing that I really like and respect about your videos is I I get so caught up in this and it sometimes just like it gets, it gets me, gets to me.
Speaker 1:It was like do I need to buy super high quality fancy camera, upload things in 4K quality, fancy captions, fancy this thing, like make it look like so incredibly beautiful. And then that's one thing is I'm watching your content and you're just like filming yourself speaking in a car, dude, like on just the front-facing camera, no mic, you know what I mean or like just a small little mic that you got from, whatever it is, and I was like bang, 10 million views you don't need.
Speaker 2:Like it's great to have all that stuff. You know, I still don't even have like a real camera. I wouldn't even know what to do with it. I would, I wouldn't know. Then I have to edit things. I edit all of my videos on my phone. I run my whole business on my phone. Like there's barely anything I do on you know know the computer besides like calls like this. You know, um, but yeah, like that's something we overthink a lot with the content. I certainly did in the beginning Like I thought the same things. So like really all I need is I just need a phone.
Speaker 1:How do you think nice guys like where, where do nice guys get it wrong with content? Like how does content starting an online business, scaling an online business?
Speaker 2:They don't want to take that risk. They care what everyone thinks about them too much. They lose, like people aren't going to like it about them. You know, it's that external validation piece, that that that we desire, so like I don't want to upset other people. So there's, you know, certain topics that they'll avoid talking about, or certain types of videos that they won't make Right, even though that they believe, um, in that thing, even though it's part of their morals and their values and who they are, they're not going to talk about it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. I felt like for me, if I have to say anything where I reject anyone else.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I find it difficult. Yeah, I, I, I kind of go back and forth on it where it's like man, should I really be calling this person out, like attacking them? I don't really want to do that. You know what I mean. I don't and I don't necessarily know that it's like a healthy thing to do to attack people and like judge them for what they're doing or whatever. I think it's always better to have some grace with them and and. But at the same time, it's like we have to talk about stuff, like we have to talk about certain issues and a lot of times for me, you know, it's like all right.
Speaker 2:Well, this, this thing, this is a controversial thing. This has a ton of views. I'm going to I'm going to talk about it. Like I'm going to throw it on there. I'm going to talk about it. I'm going to be as um as gentle as I can, like I'm not going to go for the jugular on these people, cause I don't know who they are, I don't know what they really believe. I don't, I don't know them Right, all this stuff is fake.
Speaker 2:Maybe they were just posting a video to get an outrage and now their life is ruined and they're actually a really good person. They're just not good at making jokes and they made a terrible joke that that that happens, you know it, it's, it's something that's real. Um, but yeah, that that that is a a tough thing, cause, like for me in the beginning of making the content, I never spoke on camera. Like it was very rare. Probably for the first year or two it was only videos where either I was doing like an AI voiceover with like clips of me in the background or just like quotes or text with me in the background. Like that was probably 95% of the videos. Yeah, so, like on on Tik TOK, I guess probably how I made my first million followers posting videos like that.
Speaker 1:Whoa, whoa. Yeah, it's crazy because, like mine's the opposite. So I think, oh, I need to talk, talk, talk. Instead of like, create an emotional experience, I just need to to chat, so that just sort of breaks like a limiting belief in my mind yeah, there's, there's different styles.
Speaker 2:I, I, I've, I've the the process that I've gone through I've, I've tried, like every style of content that I come across that I see perform. Well, I try to take it and like, all right, let me post this type of video. Like there's these videos where it's like a picture with some texts on it, like the meme type thing, and it's like the picture just kind of fades in. I'm like I'm going to make a bunch of those and see if they do. Well, it turns out they do. And it's like, oh. And then there's like just memes in general. Like I find all these anime memes and different memes from movies and things. I'm like, all right, why don't I post that? Oh, my Cause, that's just, it's free views If I can, if I can do that. And then it's like, oh, hey, then there's these reaction videos.
Speaker 2:That's when I started doing reaction videos, like probably a year or two ago now somewhere in that ballpark, like, all right, I'm going to try my hand at these and like every time it was like, you know, figuring out how to kind of incorporate those. And now I have, like these different avenues to go into and each one, um, has a different purpose and each one hits a different audience and each one also takes a different amount of energy and time. Like you think about a video where it's just a block of text and me in the background that takes one minute sometimes. That takes one minute sometimes like legitimately, like a quote or you know whatever. Like that is so simple but that could get I've had videos like that get you know, up to 10 million views.
Speaker 1:It's just a simple thing. Like that, memes get 30 million views. That's crazy. Do you find that, um, with the audience that you have and how you create content as well, that you get like a lot of opportunities to, let's say, be an influencer, where people invite you to do this, and you're just like no, and have to flex your anti-nice guy syndrome? Because it's like because I know a few people even them like I'm friends with people that are that have some pretty large accounts and I can see that sometimes the audience that they have and the influence and impact that they have is everyone's trying to get a piece of them in some way, some shape, some form somehow, and they're like, oh, I hate this, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Like it's like every conversation I have, someone's trying to get a piece of me for something yeah, yeah, I just don't talk to people much, just like if I, just if I have a hint of that in a DM, I just ignore that. I just I don't respond to. I respond to a majority of people that DM me honestly Like, especially if they say something like if they open the gate with something like positive, I'll even follow them back, Like I'm just like, oh, this is, I'm glad this person is like following and supporting the page, like I love that. But yeah, I just, I have experienced some of that, I guess a lot of that. I just, I just ignore it, I don't care, it's fine.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I like it. I bring that up because one part of me that has like shiny object syndrome and can get easily distracted with something, because it's like oh, I can get like more attention, or blah, blah, blah. For me, the purpose thing like really comes in handy. It's like if I know my purpose and I'm really committed to it, I have this filter that I can use. That's like hey, you want to come speak in a podcast? Hey, you want to come do something that's involved in men's mental health or the masculine feminine space, or something to do with content or online content creation or health, then I'm all in, I'm like let's go. Like that sounds amazing to me, but if it's anything else, I'm like nope, but I'm. I'm happy that it's in this situation, because there's so many other distractions and if I started doing it the side project it'd take me away from doing this right.
Speaker 2:That's why it's so important. How do you make decisions? Otherwise you don't know what you want, you don't have goals, you don't have a purpose, you're just making decisions based on how it's going to make other people feel.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, how have. What are some strategies that you have used? I just got fascinated, fascinated by this. What are some strategies that you have used to help men, like find purpose? Because, because I know, it's like when I know Peterson talks about Jordan Peterson, it's like like you know, when men do kind of find the way they want to go, it's like, um, joseph campbell had, do you know, have you researched the hero's journey much? Yeah, I'm unfamiliar. Yep, oh god, I love it so much, joseph campbell.
Speaker 1:And do you know maslow's hierarchy of needs? So joseph campbell had this quote that's like, when a man understands his hero's journey and his pathway to bliss, he'll just burn down Maslow's hierarchy of needs, burn it to the ground. He will work till the latest time, get up early, he'll be obsessed, he will never stop. It's kind of like he'll take the limitless pill, but that's found when he's understood his pathway to bliss. So I'd love to know any of the strategies or the questions that you ask to help people get there. So, um, I'd love to know any of the strategies or the questions that you ask to help people get, to help people get there, because I find that once you get that fire under your ass, man, it's go time.
Speaker 2:I I think, um, your purpose is rooted in your pain. You're most equipped to that to help the people. You used to be right like it is really. Just look at the most painful things you've you've not just been through, but like overcome actually, or at least like been on the path of like breaking down barriers and and overcoming it.
Speaker 2:I think your purpose is rooted in there, truly and then make content around it if you, if you so desire, if you desire, yeah, yeah, yeah, if you feel inclined to do so yeah, I feel like a bunch of people do.
Speaker 1:I feel like the whole personal brand thing kind of helps. If you're in business or running business and and you're someone who you know is fascinated by like good quality content, I feel like it can really open doors, um, if you have a good relationship with it. But obviously if it's not a part part of you and where you're supposed to be, then it makes so much sense.
Speaker 2:It changes everything, man. It changes everything. I have no background in this. I have no. Like we were talking about, it just happened. I just made that video and then all of a sudden I'm like okay.
Speaker 1:Do you feel you're supposed to do this? Do do you feel you're supposed to do this? Do you feel like you're supposed to do this though?
Speaker 2:oh, absolutely. There's no doubt in my mind. There's no doubt in my mind um, just because I, I wasn't uh equipped or prepared to do it when when it started, like doesn't mean I wasn't supposed to do it, right, it's. It's that whole. You know, god doesn't call the equipped, he equips the cold type of thought process. Right, it's like I'm on the, on the path and everything.
Speaker 2:By the way, everything that I learned through that failure, through that failure of the first account, hiring that coach and like doing all of that, if I didn't learn everything there, prepared me for for this, if I didn't learn all that stuff, if I didn't do all of that, if I didn't go through that Valley and ask all those questions and do all that research and get a really super deep understanding of social media and like all of that stuff, I wouldn't be able to like do what I'm doing now. It was all. When it comes to purpose, just, I always tell guys, head in a direction that feels right. It probably won't be the thing, maybe it will, maybe you'll luck out and the first thing you pick will be the thing that you like, pursue and do for the rest of your life. Who knows, but probably there's a chance that it won't. Good news is, if it doesn't end up being that thing, it will lead you and prepare you for the thing.
Speaker 1:It's crazy how many men that I find are stuck in pretty good.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, yeah, that whole region beta paradox thing if you've ever heard. Ah, what's that? It's basically this. That, uh, whole region beta paradox thing If you've ever heard. Ah, what's that? It's basically this region where, like, essentially, you would be better off if you were worse.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, it's like oh, how come I haven't got this crazy trauma or this really bad thing happened to me? Because if it did, then at least I'd have the motivation to face fear and do it. You know, have a purpose or blah, blah, blah yeah, you get stuck in.
Speaker 2:Not that bad or pretty good, right, you get stuck in that relationship that you know isn't the right one, but it's not that bad, it's pretty good. Right, you get stuck in that job, you get right, it's not painful enough to change, it's not painful enough to change. It's not painful enough to change. So you don't. You just stay there. Most men just stay right there their entire lives.
Speaker 1:It's crazy because I feel like in some of Nietzsche's books that I've read, he really argues the point of getting to choose. It's very like choose your own pain and make sure you choose it, because otherwise your pain will choose you. That's when we can resist it, numb it, whatever it is. It's like a lot of concept that he talks about and I was like man.
Speaker 1:If I don't go and compete in a bodybuilding show, if I don't do that and put that stress and pressure on myself like I won't become a diamond. I won't have no story to tell. I won't be able to showcase anything that I've done. If I don't get into business and have to learn sales skills and DM strategies and build websites and build funnels and all these things and stay up late to figure it out and get frustrated because I've spent three hours trying to find one button on a computer and feel like I want to rip my hair out, um, then you know I'm not going to have a system in place to create anything. I just I just resonate with that so much yeah, yeah, I think a lot of people do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, choose your pain right. The whole, uh, I don't remember who said it, but like there's a whole talk like the pain of the pain of regret versus the pain of um, oh, I don't even know what you would, what, the, what the right wording is, uh, but like the, the pain of of now, like doing the things that you don't want to do now, right, getting out of the comfort zone. It's like you can get uncomfortable and feel that pain and do all of that now, or experience the crushing pain of regret at the end of your life because you never did it or missed the opportunity you know.
Speaker 1:I'm asking this is a selfish question. I want to know like in the realm of what we're talking about. There's this problem that I always have where I find myself focusing on the wrong shit, where I'm like, oh yeah, and I can work hard, I can do this blah blah and sometimes like, oh, I've just been spending so much time just focusing on the wrong thing. Damn it, if only I had I just focused on that. What do you think that is?
Speaker 2:I don't know why are you focusing what like? What's the wrong thing? What would be an example of the wrong?
Speaker 1:is it like distractions, or is it like well, I guess, at the end of the day, if it's the wrong thing, it is a distraction for sure so, um, you know, like just an example for me, right, it's like okay, I love podcasting, it's my favorite thing and I've got, I've got a great, great podcast. We're getting close to 300 episodes. Let's go. Um, like it's like oh, should I be focusing on editing my podcast all week this week and getting that sorted, or should I be focusing on hiring someone? Or should I be focusing on posting the content that I'd be posting today? Should I be in my dms, or should I be building this website thing that I've had a thought about? Should I be writing you know what I mean and getting the right things happening at the right time? Sometimes it's like super overwhelming and I find a lot of people have the same thing, but I'm like I ain't got any answers for this because I'm in it yeah, yeah, that can be a challenge.
Speaker 2:I get that because there's so much, especially with, like, what we're doing, um, limitless, like the opportunities are limitless. Like I could just go make content for brands, or I could go do affiliate marketing or I could, you know, I could start posting only fans models on my page and make way more money. Like I could do all kinds of stuff. You know, oftentimes it's kind of the like you said, the shiny object. Um, I think it comes back to like coming back to like knowing our purpose and knowing our, our values. Like my values are very much rooted in growth and connection.
Speaker 2:Um, and, and because of that, I think I think, if you go back to that and just remember, like, all right, what is, what is my purpose, what are my, my values and which one of these things kind of big picture directions is going to to take me there, and a lot of times, when it comes to things like all right, maybe I should hire someone or maybe I should do this or try that, I think a lot of times, if it's something that we haven't done and we're thinking about doing, it's like, hey, why don't you go ahead and do that and test it as fast as you possibly can to see if it like aligns, see if it kind of aligns with the purpose, the values and the mission, or if it's just like a dead end and then like leave it behind. I don't, I don't think there's anything wrong with that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's, yeah, that's, that's so true.
Speaker 2:Cause it could be something that, like is, literally requires almost no extra effort, but is in direct alignment and kind of in parallel with what you're already doing, you know do you teach that to guys in your community?
Speaker 2:I don't. If I'm talking about it, I've probably talked about it before, I'm sure, if the questions come up. Actually, yes, very much so, especially when it comes to identifying In the beginning of any of the guys that do the coursework. There's a really big piece of it is just the understanding yourself and that you know we use, um, like, there's a, a, a great tool called um, the Enneagram that we'll use, which can, like, basically help people figure out I just lost a cup, it'll be all right. Um, this tool right here, uh, it's like a personality test essentially, um, you know, we do a few personality tests and then go through and identify, like, what are your like? What are your values? Like, what do you value? Kind of um, why, why do you do the things that you do? Why are certain things so much more important to you than than others? Like, what is it at the core? Right? And for me, you know I would talk about like, um, you know I I used to think my values were like freedom and and, um, you know, family and faith.
Speaker 2:A lot of people say those types of things, right, it's like yeah, but why? Why is that a value to you? Why is that thing so important to you and you kind of break it down further and it's like, okay, why is family so important to me? It's because, growing up, every Sunday I would have dinner with all of my seven aunts and uncles and 30 cousins and my grandparent. We would be together and we will be playing and it was a connection Like we just had this deep connection in our family that, uh, that I love and I want to recreate in our own. So I'm like, okay, I value, I don't value fam, I value the connection that family gives me.
Speaker 2:That's why I value family, right, and then everything else I do to achieve financial freedom and to achieve, you know, autonomy and like all this other stuff. Why do I love that so much? Why do I want it so much? I just really love growth, like I love seeing it in other people. I love seeing other people grow and learn and change and develop because I love it in myself. It's a projection I love when I'm actually learning and growing and moving towards those goals and pursuing my purpose. So, yes, it's definitely something that we have to talk about. It's it's a really core element.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's amazing. And for the people who this is their first time hearing you, understanding where, where you are, where can they find you and how can they get involved in your community.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so if anybody just searches King's community, like you'll, you'll see our pages, all our social medias. You go to kings-communitynet, slash discord. You can get the invite to the discord community, um, and just be on the lookout. Once you're in the community. It's kind of the gateway to everything else, like, once you get in the free community, then you can, you know, get involved in our other programs, getting involved in our group calls, um, and, and just start hanging out and seeing what we're all about you know, man, thank you so much and thank you for creating some of the most elite, inspiring content.
Speaker 1:That's certainly helped me go through some really dark moments in the last year and understand, understand and also re-remind as well following you, because it's like, oh yes, here's this thing, here's this thing, this one need to overcome and and just thank you for creating it, man, and thanks for going through it and, you know, learning the skills and and just motivating the people and and personally inspiring me too.
Speaker 2:So thank you yeah, man, no problem, and thank you for having me on, man, and thank you for doing what you're doing, like I honor you. This is not a small thing that you're doing. You said 300 episodes, good Lord. Like you are, you are getting after it, like, and it's so important. There's so there's there's such a need for for what you're doing and I know it's not easy. I know. I know what it takes to do what you're doing Like. I know what it takes to create content, to hop on here to schedule, to get these scheduled, to reschedule them over and over again, to to travel around.
Speaker 2:And you're doing the speaking engagements too. From what you said, like, that's incredible, man, and I just want to honor you for that, because that should not be overlooked. Like, that is a beautiful thing and a very challenging thing that you are doing that most people could not even imagine how difficult it is and and the level that you've had to get to just to even like, take action on the thought of doing that, most people never even get close to that. So, dude, huge respect for you and everything that you're doing right now and I really appreciate you reaching out to have me on here. It was a great conversation. I enjoyed it very much. Man, yeah, me too, and thank you man, Absolutely.